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Mike Watson, is he a real estate investing guru like he claims, or a con man and fraudster, or somewhere inbetween?
This is an open forum Blog where people can speak freely about their experience and knowledge of Mike Watson.
The posts are not edited unless there is inappropriate language. This blog is not slanted towards one Point Of View or another. All postings are welcome here, so as to give a fair and balanced opportunity for everyone. Whether your politics are “Pro Mike Watson” , or “Anti Mike Watson” , your comments will be posted here equally.
Mike Watson himself may also post here without fear of editing, for this is an open democratic format.
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192 comments:
Mike P. Watson, is a Real Estate investment guru, http://www.mikewatsoninvesting.com,who traveled the country pretending to be an expert on land development, and charged thousands of students lots of money to teach them to invest. He also used his star status to gain the trust of students and get them to invest hard money into his alleged “deals”. Now they are screwed
I have heard that he is going broke now, and that many students and investors stand to lose lots of money.
Yes I heard the same thing. he cant pay his bills and has allegedly cheated some investors already. I heard that he has had to put legal GAG orders on some disgruntled investors. Dont know if thats true.
hi there yes we all make mistakes in life get over that the thing here is most of you have not tried to even go and do what mike talks a bought so how can we even talk a bought the person if we haven’t even done a deal i am a successful student of mikes making $$$$$ yes he may have problems but don’t we all have problems in life leave the man live his life in peace
I worked for Mike, he is not a cheat, he is a salesman. His strategies are good, he learned them from some of the best investors. What he is going through is not unlike what Ron Legrand and other gurus are dealing with, a down market. When you deal with thousands of clients it is not easy to manage, he has done a good job of it. I left for personal reasons but I can vouch that he is honest and has made mistake of ambition, but not of deceit. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but having known the guy I’ve seen his temper and I’ve seen his generosity. He is really beat up over this, but if he was really committing fraud he would be in jail.
If he reads this I hope he knows that we know he is not a bad guy, just a guy facing a real estate storm.
Jon-
You say Mike learned from the best. On his cd’s and at his camps he always said he never took another real estate course, and that he was self taught. Which is it? Obviously, he learned from others, but saying that would not be good for business, would it?
And yes, Mike Watson is an amazing salesperson, NOT an amazing investor, obviously. The issue is his lack of disclosure.
Regarding your comment that if he was deceiving others he would be in jail, you should not speak too quickly on that point. Several SEC offices around the country are investigating him for offering securities without a license, and defrauding investors that has led to the losses of millions of dollars. We’ll see how it all pans out, but you should withhold judgement until you see the results of these investigations.
Mike Watson and Josh Escobedo are now being squeezed by various government security agencies. For them, this will be like being inside the coils of not one but several constrictor snakes. I spoke with the SEC attorneys assigned to Mikes case in July. They said they would prefer not being public until they informed Mike Watson that he was under investigation. Apparently that’s happened.
If I understand the process correctly, the SEC has the power to shut down MWI, liquidate all assets and distribute them proportionately to the investors. If there was anything criminal, beyond securities violations such as non-disclosures and misrepresentation, then the Justice Department will be brought in. Two attorneys from the Enforcement Division of the Washington State Securities Department phoned me yesterday. They said what the SEC will look for is if any money was misused. In other words, if Mike and Josh invested the money in losing properties, that’s only a securities violation if they did not disclose their desparate financial condition. However, if they took money that was to be invested in a property and used it to pay off other investors, my understanding is that’s criminal fraud. That could mean prosecution by the U.S. Attorney Generals office, and jail time in a federal facility if convicted. Can anyone tell me if my understanding is correct?
Washington State, Utah, California and probably other states have to stay with securities violations and criminal activities within their own states. The SEC, to my understanding, is the Big Dog Snarling. They can take a contract written in Utah with an investor in California to buy a property in Texas and follow the trail wherever it leads.
None of this happens quickly. I’m glad. Like someone in the coils of a giant constrictor snake, the death of MWI, Mike Watson, Josh Escobedo and the little fish like Liz Ambriz will take months, even years. I remember the slow realization that I had been swindled. It was spread out over months, as one promise became on more lie, and hope began to vanish. I was bitter, angry, depressed. After a year, my wife couldn’t stand it any longer and left me. She’s filed for divorce. My credit is in shambles. I made economic decisions based on Mike’s promises through Josh that I would be repaid, and lost as much money through those decisions as I did the loss of capital that Mike controlled.
I am sorry for those who still cling to the hope that they will eventually be made whole. My belief is that eventually we will all receive a few pennies on the dollars lost. That could take several years.
I know that Mike and Josh have to be feeling the pain of public humiliation. It will happen slowly. They will have hopes that they can dodge, intimidate and outsmart these highly trained and motivated government attorneys. As happened with me at their hands, their hopes will slowly be crushed and squeezed in little increments. As with me, the end will be anticlimatic. Unlike the rest of us who have done no wrong and committed no crimes, though, Mike and Josh will not be able to grieve, cut their losses, and move forward. My guess is that when their manuvering is done and all is lost, they will begin jail sentences while the slower states with limited budgets complete their investigations and pile on. For the victims, we will pick up and move on. For Mike and Josh, their public humiliation and loss of all material things will just be another step in their long slide into hell.
Hello all,
I am just curious if anyone (still) has any of Mike’s camps on DVD that they would be willing to share. I think the first live set offered was from Las Vegas two years ago. I’m compiling some info and lies on tape could be useful, though I’m not about to buy any of the sets at the ridiculous prices he’s still trying to charge!
Let me know at rhsenterprises@hotmail.com
Thanks!
I just got an email from Mike Watson. He’s pushing something for Ron Legrand. To request that Ron Legrand not do business with Mike Watson, visit this link and Tell Mr. Legrand about this blog.
Here’s the link:
http://www.ronlegrand.com/forms/index.cfm?id=42701
There’s life after Mike Watson. I’m working on a way out of this mess. Let’s get together and talk. How about Wed. Oct. 14th about 6:15pm? By the way , I’m in Phoenix Az.
The 14th is not good for me. Sometime after the 15th?
Joan,
I’m up for getting together on the 14th. We can use my house @ 33022 N. 12th Street, Phoenix, AZ unless someone else is more centrally located. Let me know.
623-445-9777
Bob,
That sounds great! Thanks for offering your place. We’ll see you then. Please, anyone coming RSVP to Bob Kerr at 623-445-9777. Thanks again Bob for offering!
You can count me in! I’d love to hear a way out of this mess. As your aware I not only invested but I taught the 2 Day classes till I found out I was teaching theory and not practice. I was also told I was teaching too much and not enough selling!I’ll see you Wed. at 6:15pm.
This is an email I received from the MWI attorney. It may be useful for others to read. I’m sure Mr. Allen is a capable attorney, but I’ve been told by other attorneys that most of his opinions are not grounded in reality.
1) Libel, slander and defamation of character is a very specific complaint and hard to prove. First, it has to be a lie. Second, you have to prove intent to cause harm. Third, there are different sets of standards applied to public figures.
2) I’m told you can’t sue someone for threatening to go to a government enforcement agency. An attorney at the SEC was puzzled by this legal approach by Mr. Allen.
3) Maybe Mr. Allen would like to respond with case law? I’m curious to know what statues he would use to send ME to jail for telling the SEC the crimes I believe Mike Watson has perpetrated.
As Jason says, Mike is a bully. A bully will usually back down when faced with a credible threat. I think Mike Watson will very soon have his hands full with more pressing priorities than suing former students trying to collect unpaid debts. Read on; this should be instructive for anyone considering standing up to Mike.
This is a standard, boiler plate ‘threat’ letter, sent by a scrub attorney on behalf of Mike Watson to scare people into submission.
The fact that you got this shows how desperate and fearful Mike Watson is of the truth getting out there, and damaging his ‘business’.
Have no fear of these kinds of letters. The allegations are bogus, and Mike Watson doesnt have the resources to follow thru on his ‘threat’. And if he ever did, just post it for the world to see.
Bryan Allen and Mike Watson can go pound sand. Dont fear this kind of ‘bullying’ tactic. It’s bogus.
Exciting news. (To me anyway, but I’m easily amused.) I have a reporter who is capable of reaching hundreds of thousands of people writing a print story about Mike Watson. The reporter is in the research stage. He needs more than your story. He needs proof that your story is real. For example, I am sending him a copy of my unpaid Promissory Note, some of the threatening correspondance from MWI attorneys, and an email saying they not only can’t pay, they REFUSE to pay. If you are willing to speak to this reporter, let me know. I don’t need your documentation, or even your story, but he will. If you are interested in contributing, please send your contact info to me at paul@InvestigatingMikeWatson.com.
Wow! This could be huge. Are ou willing to post the investigators info here? Wouldnt it make sense for the investigator to at least provide some sort of contact info?
Thanks for your reply, Conman5509. I agree. Not only would the public exposure be available by Mike Watson’s friends, family, relatives and fellow Mormons, this would also potential investors from making the same mistakes I (and maybe others) have made. Public exposure and outcry would also accelerate pressure on government agencies to DO SOMETHING.
The reporter does not want his name or publication name printed now. The reporter has said he needs to be sure there is really a story first. Seems reasonable. He’s only talked to one guy (me) so far. He doesn’t know that my story is true. He doesn’t know my story isn’t just an isolated mistake by an upstanding citizen who is simply the victim of an economic downturn.
Send me your contact info is you are willing to help. paul@InvestigatingMikeWatson.com
Yes. I want to get together and discuss life after Mike. Let me know where and when and I’ll be there. Bob and Georgia Kerr. 623-445-9777
How about it does anyone want to get together and discuss how we found life after Mike. What we can do now. Let me know.
I am an attorney who was (not currently) representing an investor who lost money with Mike Watson, and I wanted to post some information that may be useful to those of you who are persuing civil and criminal actions against Mike Watson. Allthough I am not currently taking on clients, I do believe that widespread fraud has been perpetrated by Mr. Watson and his company, and I will share whatever information that I can (excluding, of course, attorney client privelege information). Feel free to email me if you are building a case, and I will share with you what information I can. My direct email is brenttop123@gmail.com.
Friends,
this is a copy of my post on http://www.invetigatinmikewatson.com
It is a great website with a lot of useful information, and blog. Please leave your comments there as well.
I lent Mike Watson $600,000 for 1 year. He gave me second trust deed for Villa Nueva, an apartment building in Texas. I was misinformed. I got my disclosures after they had my money. I never saw an appraisal for Villa Nueva and I never saw a HUD 1. I never saw a note from the First lender, I never saw a purchase contract, I have not seen actual net income from the property. All I got was just Performa. I was not informed that he transferred property to another LLC with Jim and Kevin, two partners from Texas who he works with. I believe he lied on the stage, claiming that he acquired cash flowing properties in Texas(Villa one of them) and that he was getting a check from the “net” income from Jim on the stage. I witnessed it, and Jim confirmed it was money from Villa.
He got my money in March of 2008, Later, according to his own words he had financial difficulties for 2 or 3 yrs, and was using his own funds to pay lenders-students. It is obvious for me now that he was involved in a Ponzi scheme, getting money from new investors like me to pay to the ones in line from before. Also, Josh Escobedo and Liz Ambriz were very much involved. Particularly Josh. He was the one who was talking to me. Looking back I am realizing that he probably knew that money was going from one investor to other. He must have been aware that it is not right thing to do, but he was not disclosing it to investors-lenders. I always loved Josh. He is a soft spoken, sweet person, but he is not a kid. He knew what was going on.
My goal is to see that they all will be punished for their actions, and try to recover my money. They were raising money even just few month ago. I remember his webinars, where he was saying that He is Buying! I know some of you must have recording of webinars, please let us know who has it. Since I posted my story on the blog at http://mikewatsonsbroke.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/hello-world I got a lot of e mails. Only a few investors who lost money with him are willing to come forward and reveal their names. I understand that, and I respect free will. But it is with great sadness I can see that he is still in control. I was extremely offended by his webinars for investors, with direct threats for the ones who will speak up, and lies and assurances that anyone who will keep their mouth shut will have a chance when His Greatness decides who is getting paid. It was one threat after another.
Continued from previous post...
Some of us think that if they go after him alone they can be either first in the line, or maybe he will not be so angry at them, and pay. In my opinion he will not. This is the man who lost his honesty a long time ago, when he intentionally lied almost about everything. He was fake teacher, fake investor, and a fake Christian. Why change now? It hurts me to see that some of you ( in your e mails to me) are still scared of him in fear of retaliation. Just think that fear of him is exactly what he wants! Just think that you are taking financial and emotional stress, and he will just go on with his life. Remember how he was crying at the investors webinar and saying: “I will fight that!” What exactly he was intending to fight? His criminal actions, or our response on it? It is behind my understanding that there still are people who believe that all this has to do nothing with MWI, that it was a bad real estate market. MWI was irresponsible and dishonest with money his students loaned him.
Here is what I am doing. I informed the SEC here locally. I will try to make this case Federal. I will join Paul and others in trying to have a class action lawsuit in Utah. Some of us have contacted the Attorney general in Utah. Please join us.
Mike Watson & Co. played a big game. It is time for a Big Payback.
Thank you for all your warm responses, particularly to Bob and Jason. Jason, your letter to me, and your posts on the blog are very inspiring, thank you. Friends, we need to find who his bishop is, and to what congregation he belongs to. We believe it is a shame that person like him can be part of a great religion. I don’t think after knowing what he was doing with peoples money they will want to get any more tithes from him. Please help!
There was one great thing about all this-people I met when traveling, and people I am starting to know better now. It’s good to know you. Let’s fight the Monster!
Kara
kara52@sbcglobal.net
Hey all,
I want to echo what Kara said about fear. Do not be afraid of Mike Watson. I guarantee you HE is the one who is afraid. Afraid of this blog. Afraid of criminal charges. Afraid of his ecclesiastical leaders (his bishop, who is his church leader) finding out about what he has been up to, and afraid of being exposed for what he has done.
Do NOT fear him. You have nothing to fear. He is all bark, and no bite. If he threatens ANYONE, just post it here for the world to see. Like Brent said below, he tries these bully tactics, and they are ALL bark, no bite. I saw it when I was teaching for MWI, and it’s amazing how he is able to intimidate people.
Stand up, let your voice be heard, and DO NOT FEAR
Also, wanted to post my email. iit is jasonsant@hotmail.com. I already told Kara and Paul that I’d provide what assistance I can. I know many folks who have been damaged by Mike, including myself, and I”m providing my email here if u want to get in touch with me. Paul and Kara are moving forward, and I will provide whatever support I can, but I should also say this:
IF YOU LOST MONEY TO MIKE WATSON, AND YOU DO NOT STAND UP, YOU ARE AS GUILTY AS MIKE WATSON. Why? Because the next person that gets hurt could have been saved from harm if only people will stand up. The swell of people coming forward is truly amazing, and I have already been contacted by many. Let your voice be heard, and coordinate with Paul and Kara, who are truly moving forward to stop Mike Watson from harming anyone else. STAND UP AND LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD!
Dear Kara,
I really empathize with you and your loss. In comparison mine is petty. But because I haven’t made anything this whole year, what I have lost is a lot. I am trying to get him and MWI off my back. I like to see him pay for all his deeds. It is amazing how people can lift their head after living with such guilt (if they feel it of course). I never liked either Jim or his partner Kevin. They do not sound sincere at all. But somehow I fell for the big boy’s coniving tactics in LV when I went for the degree camp 2 years ago. Let me know if there is something I can do to get my money back.
Just a heads up to say I sent the person posting as Brent an email many days ago, outlining my case and the case of several others I am working with. I haven’t heard back from him. We all get busy. However, I am now concerned that I sent information to someone I know nothing about. My fear is that the person posting as Brent is not who he says he is, and is actually associated with Mike Watson. Please be careful (more than me?) about what you send to others.
Paul,
I did receive your email, and I am NOT associated with Mike Watson in any way, shape or form. I am involved with two very time consuming trial cases right now, and therefore I would like everyone who has emailed me (10 people+ so far) to please be patient. I will reply, but please respect the fact that no one has paid a retainer for this service, and I am doing it out of a conviction that Mr. Watson has commited fraud, and that I also see significant disorganization from former investors on what to do. In addition, Mr. Watson has bullied and threatened many of you (and he also tried that with my client), and that’s why I’m providing what assistance I can, free of charge.
So please, understand that I am in the middle of two very time consuming trial cases right now, however I will reply to your email as I have time.
Those of you persuing civil options may find this link helpful: http://pbw.co.utah.ut.us/scripts/pbcgi70.exe/uc1/u_functions/uof_party_find?WATSON_FAMILY_LC
I am sure Mike has hidden his assets as well as possible, and he claims to be broke, but with enough digging, anyonce can find where he put things. You will see that his dad (Brent) has a trust with Heather, Mike’s wife. Just some more resources to help you out in your legal actions against this fraudster
Mike Watson is promoting stuff for others, and this is his most recent ‘affiliate partner’. Dont support them, and better yet, email them and let them know about this blog, and to stop doing busiess with Mike Watson.
http://www.investingwiththestars.net/season3/
Another way to let your voice be heard is to post reviews on amazon about Mike’s books. Several of us should get on there and point them to this blog. I’m going to today, and I wanted to share the link so you can go to amazon, post a review about his crappy books, and point them to this blog:
http://www.amazon.com/Highest-Best-Real-Estate-Investment/product-reviews/0980082722
thanks for the share. Yeah, you can also post as a comment there too. Funny to see that several of the ‘positive’ comments are from current or former employees before they quit. Mike has to buy his positive spin!
Why is Mike Watson not in Jail? Where are the SEC offices, and FTC? I cant believe that after swindeling so many people he has not been carted off in handcuffs yet. Does the SEC offices not care that this man has defrauded people of millions of dollars all across the US?
Jessica. Have YOU done everything you can? I believe the SEC is the best place to lodge a complaint. If you have not already done so, please use the link at http://www.investigatingmikewatson.com/Contact.html. As for why they haven’t acted, the short answer is “It takes time.” Preparing a case like the one against Mike Watson, Josh Escobedo, Liz Ambriz and all the other employees of Mike Watson Investing takes an extraordinary amount of time. We all want smaller government,except when it impacts us. The manpower isn’t there. These investigators have a choice on where they spend their limited man hours. A huge part of that is the number of complaints they receive. We don’t have a right to complain until we do our part. We have a responsibility to new, unknowing investors.
Hey all,
I am building a case too, and I need to gather some specific information. Can someone please post the home address for Mike Watson here? I’m not sending some thugs over there or anything, but I do need that to be able to serve him personally with papers.
I cant find his home address anywhere, and I’m sure some of you here already have that info, so if u could post his address for all that would be great. thx!
I’m not a Mike Watson fan, but even I would be reluctant to post his home address. (Which I do not have.) Serve him at his office. That address is on his website.
Do you mind telling us what you are serving him with? You can also post on the blog page at http://www.InvestigatingMikeWatson.com, which is http://blog.investigatingmikewatson.com. Good luck.
I have created a new website. http://www.InvestigatingMikeWatson.com. I don’t know enough to do it all myself. Please contribute your knowledge, and your story. There are resource pages with contact information for the SEC, plus the Division of Securities for several states. It has a blog. The blog was not created to compete with this one, but as a way that people more knowledgable than myself could upload information. Please help me.
Would anyone be interested in hiring an attorney with me? This would amount to a class action lawsuit against MWI. The cost would be less if we have multiple people involved. If enough people join the lawsuit, I may be able to find a Utah law firm who will take the case on a contingency basis. (It will have to be Utah, because the deal I signed said that any legal action would have to take place in Utah.) This would mean less money to each of us if we win, but no money out of pocket if we lose. Please contact me at paul@seattleteamrealestate.com if you are interested, or have comments. Of course, you can “go public” responding here on this post.
All.
I also invested money with Mike Watson,
My note was due in July 2009 And Elizabeth as well as Josh Escobedo told me to call the welfare department if I needed money because they were not going to honor my note, A bunch CYNICAL people is what they are.
Have you made contact with the other investors in here? Karen and Paul are both working with the authorities to shut Mike Watson down. You should make contact so the authorities can be made aware of your situation as well.
I have a new book. “collecting bad debts for poor folks”. A self help guide for taking the borrower to Superior court. You don’t need an attorney to file. Contact me for a templet of the legal papers to file. Bob Parker, azman1437@cox.net
Tony, I’m sorry to hear about your loss. I’m glad to hear you mention Elizabeth and Josh Escobedo. These people will come under government scrutiny if they aren’t already. If I understand my Mormon friends correctly, there comes a time after death when they believe they will stand before their Creator and be held accountable for what they have done. I cannot imagine weasel words in front of the Almighty will gain these people Heaven. More to the point, they will also not protect them here on earth. There is a groundswell growing within the states. Their Securities Divisions are beginning to cooperate with one another. I’ve been in contact with several state Securities Agencies, as well as the SEC. Mike Watson, Josh Escobedo and Elizabeth Ambriz are all names these people are aware of.
What these regulators need is 1) Evidence of fraud or misrepresentation of facts when MWI raised capital. They need facts only; who solicited your funds, when it took place, where the contracts originated and whether your investments were secured by trust deeds or just a note. Mine was just a note. In some states, including Utah, an unsecured note is a security. A note and a trust deed is something they cannot help with. Those are different issues.
This blog is hard to find. I used to design websites, and know the basics of search engine registration. I whine about my losses all the time. We each have our stories. It is time to begin a coordinated effort. We need to share information. Please check back here for details.
I am so frustrated that I keep getting emails from Mike Watson pitching something new. What he is doing recently is marketing for other real estate affiliates, etc.
What we need to do is every time Mike Watson sends out an email pitching something for a guru, is to immediately call/email the guru and tell them what a fraud Mike is and not to do business with him.
We need to forward them to this blog. Mike was most recently pitching something for Duncan
Here is the subject line and body I sent them. Feel free to copy and send too, and go to mikewatsoninstitute.com and sign up for his news letter, so you can immediately let his new jv partners know what a fraud is, as they will definitely NOT want to be associated with him once they see this blog.
Here’s the email. Feel free to copy and send to DC fawcett now:
to: support@dcfawcett.com
are you aware that a complete fraud named Mike Watson is referring people to you? Mike Watson is being investigated by the SEC, and multiple law enforcement organizations for securities fraud, etc. He has lost millions of dollars of investor money.
I have respect for your organization, and was suprised when I saw that he was affiliated with your organization.
Please read about it here and PLEASE stop doing business with Mike Watson:
http://mikewatsonsbroke.wordpress.com/
Jessica:
They are all in this togeather.
Mike gets paid for each referal.
Anyone knowledgable of re tran. sees that Mike is selling hopes and dreams.
Anyone else know about properties of Mike’s that have been foreclosed? We should make a running list here.
I know that the ‘chateau pinehurst’ deal in Texas was foreclosed a couple months ago. I know over $1,000,000 of investor money was lost in that one alone.
If you are an investor who lost money, please post to the blog and tell your story
For the investors forclosing on a borrower, the lender is liable for the difference in the balance owed and the trustee sale price.
One has to consider the cost of sueing and the probability of collecting the judgement.
Correction to last comment. The borrower not the lender is liable for the difference in the trustee sale price and the amount owed.
Bob
Well, there is the Chateau pinehurst deal, which you mentioned which was somewhere around 2 million. Also, Kara Mentioned the Villa Nueva deal, which was a 2.4 million dollar foreclosure. Bob mentioned 3 properties in Arizona which were just foreclosed, totalling 750k.
So, just those three totals over 5 million. I am sure there are more, as several in California were heading to foreclosure. Tim Hyuck should post here, as I heard several of his deals with Mike were now either foreclosed, or about to be.
Dean in Phoenix and Wayne in Phoenix can add to this list. I’m sure there are several more out there. There were more in Texas too.
I always respected Mike as a professional investor and instructor, even though I found him annoying as a human being. His demand for applause at his seminars seemed like a pathetic attempt to make himself feel OK about who he is. I never understood his insecurity. I believed he was what he seemed to be; smart, charismatic and a highly discplined and skilled investor. I was wrong, and it cost me. I have invested, and apparently lost, my life savings by beliving in Mike Watson and Josh Escobedo.
Josh Escobedo and Mike Watson both stood up in front of hundreds of people and said
1) They had hundreds of thousands of dollars in positive cash flow each month.
2) They had millions of dollars in real estate assets, with an average equity position of over 50%.
3) That Mike Watson had a personal fortune with large amounts of liquid cash.
These were lies. They were already in trouble when they soliticted my funds. These misreptresentations are crimes. You cannot tell a potential investor that your financial situation is good when it is bad. Both Mike Watson and Josh Escobedo will be facing jail time when this is over. I am actively working to see that justice is served.
It is not a securities crime if your investment is backed by a mortgage in the state of Utah. (Does anyone know if it can be a FEDERAL crime to misrepresent an investment when it is backed by a mortgage?) I have spent hours speaking with Michael Hines, the Head of Enforcement for the Utah Division of Securities. I had an unsecured loan, so I am able to help him build a case against both Mike Watson and Josh Escobedo. Did anyone else out these have an unsecured loan?
Michael Hines assures me that all states have Securities offices dedicated to stopping people like Mike Watson and Josh Escobedo. They all cooperate with one another. If you have a case, either in Utah or a state outside Utah, please contact me at paul@seattleteamrealestate.com.
I would like to learn as much as I can about different cases in progress. Please contact me anytime. paul@seattleteamrealestate.com. I will reply immediately. We can share information. You can remain anonymous if you have to, but it’s best if we do what Jason Sant has said; stand up and don’t let this bully get away with what he has done.
BTW, Josh Escobedo will eventually have to answer for the knowing lies he has told in support of Mike Watson. Every investigator, every SEC attorney I have spoken with has shown considerable interest not only in Mike Watson, but Josh Escobedo. Maybe they can share a cell.
Paul,
you should post the contact info for the SEC people you have spoken with here on the blog for all. If everyone who
Also, if Mike Watson threatens ANYONE regarding posting here, be sure to post the threat here as well. Dont let him bully you. He cannot and will not go thru with his threats.
It’s just a last ditch attempt by Mike to keep people from getting together like we are on this blog.
Everyone, PLEASE post the SEC contact, and correspondence with Mike Watson, etc here on the blog for all to see. Only be exposing his practices, will he finally be brought to justice
Kara,
After reading your posts, I am truly moved. You have really stirred something in me, and you are correct. Mike Watson needs to be held accountable once and for all.
I am going to take a stand here, and I call on everyone who has been damaged by following Mike’s ill conceived ‘advice’, or who actually lost money like Kara by investing in him.
I taught camps with Mike for over a year. I saw the inside of his workings. I am good friends with Dean Severns, Wayne in Phoenix and a score of other ’star’ students like myself (I dont consider myself a guru at all, but Mike paraded us around to sell more of his BS to students, so I definitely feel some responsibility).
I truly am moved by what Kara has said, and I have no fear of Mike Watson. He is a bully, and when bullies are confronted in numbers, and by the truth, you find out that they are truly cowards.
Mike is DEATHLY AFRAID of people going to the authorities in mass, I guarantee. I think he probably has hidden his assets (although he was dumb enough to put many of them in his personal name), but I know what he would be deathly afraid of is criminal charges, and with so many people being hurt by him, this could go that way quickly.
The key is to stand up and let your story be told. Email Kara and let her know what your story is. If enough people will gather together, then the SEC will have to take action and shut Mike Watson down once and for all.
If you dont do it, more and more people will be hurt by following that man’s advice.
Have no fear of Mike Watson. If he threatens you, post it here. Let all the world know. Dont suffer in silence. Dont believe you are the only one who has been hurt, because you are not.
I was around almost 5 years ago now when he started this biz, so I know so many people who have come and gone. Make your name heard.
Again, I’m going to unoficially nominate Kara as the person to whom you should direct correspondence thru email. She is the real deal, and if enough speak out, the authorities will have to act!
got to http://www.utah.gov got to real estate divison his lic # 5465846-AB00 shows expired.
i signed up for him also about 2 years ago and haven’t and i’m worse off then ever. Watson Institute is a joke and on top of that I get calls from some spokeshole in his office wanting me to pay 7 grand to be “personally” coached by him. like i’m going to dig myself any deeper is his crap.
He explained the concept of how important is to know when the market goes up or down and how to make money in both markets.
My question is how he can blame on the bad market if he knows how to make money no matter what.
I agree with Craig and several others. He makes money selling dreams and seminars to people who really believe in him.
Just want to keep you updated. I had some investors who suffered losses contacting me. Please keep e mailing me at kara52@sbcglobal.net. Please read my couple e mails I posted before. I also got respond from Mike Watson. He was saying that I knew risk involved with investments and sign the forms, he also was mentioning that Jim and Kevin were the majority owner, and they did deal evaluation.(LOL)
Here is my respond to MW:
Mike,
I don’t believe that you are sorry about my situation, because, if you were you would pay on your note per our agreement or give me one of the properties you have (or maybe you don’t have-LOL- who knows?)
1. Regarding investment disclosures- I have originals which I signed after the property was acquired. Right now they are with the authorities.
2. At your seminars you were assuring us that that you were taking market conditions into consideration among other factors to prevent/limit investment risk and that you were not having problems since you did things correctly.
3.I lent you money only for 1(one) year as it says on my note. Did you sign it, or who did?
4.According to public records, Villa Nueva was bought on 03/28/2008 document number 159619 by Michael P. Watson, he is also borrower, and there is a signed note with first lender…
Villa was transferred to Octagon Properties LLC on 07/04/2008 which consists of you, Jim and Kevin. I NEVER was informed that this property was transferred, actually I was entitled as second lien holder to have been notified, as well as first lien holder, who was also not aware of it.
I gave my money to you, and I was not aware at all that you were not the only owner. It was my trust in you personally basedon your teachings, knowledge and experience.
Mike, when you get $600,000 from your investor you are responsible for your decisions, I asked you a very easy question, would you invest your money in the Villa, and just let Jim and Kevin or somebody else do what ever they want? At that time I didn’t know Jim and Kevin, or anybody else who was involved, why should I? They were not the owners, and not the borrowers.
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Why were you claiming that you have cash flowing properties in Texas including Villa when in reality it was a negative cash flow property after all obligations were paid.
Why were you getting checks on the stage?
You borrowed $600,000 from me, so how did you evaluate this deal? Are you kidding me? Jim and Kevin evaluated this deal (xo-xo). Are they Realtors at all? I don’t even know. You were the one who bought Villa. What are your teaching worth if you cannot even evaluate one income property? It is irrelevant who brought this deal to you, don’t you and/or your staff verify all the numbers and adjust things as needed, especially in a declining market such as this. And now you started teaching this new technique of yours “how to evaluate income property using 3 rules” or whatever!
Why did you personally assure me that Villa is doing fine when it was not? Isn’t that misrepresentation? Or more?
Were you not aware of how your asset was being managed? What if this was your money involved, would you want to know?… Bottom line-I lent my money to you for one year only, considering that you will evaluate your investment, for which you signed notes with a first lender, and a second lender. NOBODY in their sound mind would believe that you will take an obligation for more than $2,643,000 without personally analyzing deal and verifying that all the numbers work, and not just trusting some other people(in this case Jim and Kevin) to analyze it for you.
Or, was it just a gamble for you as I mentioned in my previous letter?
Was it one of your creative financing deals with some strings attached?…
What was the point of acquiring this property ( all utilities paid, rehab needed) almost at the asking price in the down market, and when it cannot even bring any money after all obligations are paid?
Why Mike? Is this a good example of your creative financing? Give me a lesson, please.
At the end of your letter you are giving me advice to be professional with my communications. No advises from you anymore. I have nothing to hide from nobody, this is just the beginning. I want everybody who is interested to know my story.
We live in great times when open communication is available for everybody, and I am going to do my best to use that opportunity any way I can..
Some new information. Foreclosed Villa is for sale now for $1,575,000 in one year and few month after it was bought for $2,554,687
You wasted my $600, 000 irresponsibly, and carelessly. You owe me, and I am not going to write it off. I am also currently paying monthly interest on that money borrowed from Home Equity Lines on our houses…
Happy life for you and misery for us? I don’t believe that you are out of money and out of assets…
P.S. Are you planning to return my money for your classes? I attended some of them. I paid you in full, and you fooled me for sure.
Kara-
I’m really sorry to hear about your situation. I was one of Mike’s star students from Seattle. I wish I would have realized earlier the mistake I made by following this guy.
I remember teaching at seminars where I knew he was teaching theory, and that he had not done what he was telling the audience, but people just soaked it up. He was such a compelling speaker that he just sucked all of us in.
My wife had serious reservations, and if I would have followed her council, I would be so much better off today. I have also lost a lot of money, and I have investors that I am unable to pay back now due to following that man’s advice.
What is completely galling to me is that he continues to operate a business, and continues to sell ‘advice’ even as he loses millions of dollars for investors. I agree with the posters here that something needs to be done to shut his business down, so that others dont get hurt like you did.
I am truly sorry for your loss. Not just the loss of money, but the loss of trust and confidence in humanity that this kind of experience has on a person.
I hope everyone will mobilize and assist in getting the word to the SEC and other authorities to shut Mike Watson’s business down.
The saddest part for me is that he belongs to the same faith as I do, and it’s sad that many people are going to form opinions about my faith based on his actions. He made a big point to let people know about his faith, as a ‘trust me’ selling point, and I wish he had not done that.
Please keep us posted on your progress with the authorities
Jason, I’d love to speak with you. Please contact me. Paul@InvestigatingMikeWatson.com
Mike has 2 forclosures this month in Phoenix, Az.
Bob, can you elaborate on this? which properties are being foreclosed?
Go to the web page “www.maricopa.gov” and click on the recorded documents link, then enter Michael watson and May 2009. There are 3 forclosures: 2 for parker, 1 lederman.Total debt is over $750,000.
Bob Parker
All,
I signed up for all of Mike’s camps last year. I only attended one camp, and was very disapointed. I am wondering if anyone knows how to get out of the contract or who can I contact to help me. The employee of Mike’s that signed me up for the boot camps no longer works there. My husband and I are a young couple trying to make it, and MWI takes $100 from our bank account every month, and when the contract comes due we will owe something like 9 or $10,000. (This is ALLOT of money for us) We have tried to contact MWI several times, but they tell us it will ruin our credit if you don’t pay. I would greatly, greatly appreciate if anyone can help us!!! Thanks.
There’s really no way out of it. If you stop payments, they’ll send you straight to collections. They don’t care if you have cancer, are dying or have died. They make their contracts very specific. There are no refunds. I think there is a possibility of selling your spot to someone else so you don’t have to go and you can recover some of your lost dollars.
Hello Suzanne,
I’m in the same boat, and am wondering if you have made any headway. Though I take responsibility for what I signed, there is definitely some false advertising and misrepresentations going on. There should be something we can do.
Thanks
Close your bank account ! Then open a new one !
Mike Watson is not going to sue you for it, c’mon !
Yes he will sue, he did me.
I attempted to work out a win/win situation with him that would have actually been favorable to him. They would have no part of it.
He also wasted two of my degree camps talking about nothing but his “Bank seller financing”, instead of what was supposed to be taught.
So I will go to the rest of the camps and enjoy being disruptive.
JB,
PLEASE POST the paperwork regarding his ’suit’ against you. I’m giong to get that out to the search engines to warn other consumers NOT to do business with this fraudster
Suzanne,
Yes, contact the FTC and file a complaint for fraud. Contact your credit card company, and let them know he commited fraud, and refer them to this blog so they can see.
Do a DISPUTE of the charge to your credit card, and you WILL get a refund. I did, and it worked!
hello,
I just noticed your message about contacting the FTC. how did mike commit fraud? I would really like to get out of the degree camps I signed up for. I do not want to be involved with mike’s system. did you sign up for the degree camps? and MWI told me they would send it to collections if I stop paying…
Suzanne,
I can relate to your situation. I signed up for the seller financing course but decided not to attend.
I am in the process of fighting his “non-refundable” clause. The credit card company couldn’t do anything.
It is now with the Better Business Bureau. If they are not able to help you resolve, then the last resort is the Attorney General office for your state.
Their business practice and “legal contract” needs to be reviewed to protect and inform the consumers. As it stands, the forms are a bit deceptive. So, BUYER BEWARE… read the fine print before you pay up.
Just an FYI.. The BBB is a PRIVATE Company.
You have to pay to belong to them, which means MWI probably does not pay to be a mebmer, because its an expense, and he doesnt care.
All they will do is send him a letter with an opportunity to respond and make it right. If he does not respond, they will add a bad mark to their data base in case somebody wants to check their database in the future, he will show up as a bad guy. Basically, they have “no teeth”.
The best bet is small claims court, or your Attorney General. Either way, you will never see your money again, lol, good luck.
Hi Suzanne,
I signed up for the camps last year as well. They were taking $100.00 every month. About the same time MW stopped sending me interest checks for my investment, I had to get a new credit card. I was a victim of identity theft. Anyway, I just didn’t give MW my new credit card information. I’ve heard that about 90% of the people signed up for camps have stopped paying. YOU SHOULD TOO! Email me if you have any questions,
donna@yourseattleagent.com
PS. I have not been sent to collections. This was I think in January.
Donna
Hi…
You CAN fight that. I was notified by their office that my husband and I owed a lot of money to them, and that they would be taking us to collections. Because we could no longer afford the payments, I said, “Okay…take us to collections”.
The collections person called and demanded the money. I called a friend who is in the “collections” business, and this is what he told me.
1. If/When they call, ask them to “validate the debt” This means to provide a copy of the original documentation that you signed, when you signed up for the camps.
2. If they can not give you a copy of this “contract” then you tell them to kiss your azz!
3. Someone who can not “validate the debt” can not hold you liable…it’s just like me saying that you owe me money and yet, I have no signed documentation to back it up. I’ve been inside MWI’s offices before, they are extremely disorganized. Nor could they produce copies of ANY of the contracts that we signed. Not one.
4. A Collection company can not put ANYTHING on your credit as you did not take credit out through them. Tell them that you will take legal action against them should they do that. The collections person told me that she already put a mark on my credit. I was VERY UPSET. My friend told me what to say to her, and he said call me back with her reaction.
I’m telling you, it was text book. Right from the word GO….So I called this woman back and asked for all her information. Full name, her company name and address, and I told her that I was taking legal actions against her for fraudulently reporting bad information on me. You should have heard this woman backtracking….”Uhhhh what?….well, I just found out that we did NOT put the mark on your credit – I thought we did, but we didn’t.” You have to know your rights.
We’ve done this as was very successful, another MWI student has done this, and was also very successful. MWI can’t put any marks on your credit either. You did not take out credit with them, you merely signed up for courses, and are no longer being offered. Besides, they can not give you copies of the documentation disorganized.
So stop making those $100 payments – you’re not going to be able to attend the camps anyway, it looks like after November, there will be no more camps.
So really, what are you paying for?
Wow!
This is some website, blog whatever.
I am a 4 yr student, not graduated, but will in September.
I invested with him, he paid me back earlier when I needed it.
I have made HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of dollars, not on paper, in the Bank.
Violations with SEC? I don’t know?
I am sorry for people loosing money.
By the way, I learned about this website at Mike’s Boot Camp today.
I have read all the entries, the weirdest common thread was the “didnot tell me it was risky deal”
How could you not figure there was SOME risk in it.
The Finacial markets have never seen this type of activity before. Yeah, blame Mikey, yeah he saw it comming. I was one of those guys on stage, why ? because it was an amazing times. Hell, back in the day when my 19 unit condo conversion was ready to market, I had 12 UC in 5 weeks, and I was selling parking stalls for 10K a piece in SLC. Realtors thought I was nuts trying to do that, well I did it.
If I was going to sue anyone, it would have been my GC.
he took a 4 month job and streached it 1.5 yrs…or maybe a friend of 30 years who charged me double, or the …
I am sorry that there is alot of negativity there.
Good luck with your future endeavors.
Carl
“Carl”, or whatever your real name is. I highly doubt your ‘returns’, but whatever the case…
Do you know the definition of a Ponzi scheme? It’s when you pay the first investors back with other investor money, but unless you make actual returns, eventually the music stops and the remining investors get caught with their pants down and lose everything.
That’s what Mike did. He was able to repay investors early on even though his deals were not producing returns because new investor money was coming in. When the market turned, and investors got spooked, Mike could no longer do that.
Thus, he stopped paying investors and vendors and strung them along as long as he could. Eventually he was unable to keep his assets from foreclosure, and so here we are today. He’s being foreclosed all across the country, and he’s so completely arrogant that he’s going to try to continue to sell people his investing advice. Amazing.
So, realize that you were LUCKY to be an early investor, and that had you been later on, you would have lost your money too.
what about the “other peoples money” teaching?
Hey Carl,
I never invested with Mike, nor would I ever. What you are missing that the people who lost hundreds of thousands of dollars are saying, is that Mike MISREPRESENTED and outright LIED about risks up front, and also when things got bad.
The burden of disclosing risk is on Mike Watson, who raised millions of dollars, all across the country, WITHOUT a securities licence.
I’ve got an uncle who works for the Oregon SEC office, and I forwarded this blog to him just to get his take on if there will be trouble for Mike from this or not.
His response in email, and I quote “If the allegations are true, I can identify at least a half dozen securities violations. A case like this is right in the wheelhouse for a state prosecuter. These people need to contact their state SEC offices immediately.”
So, I would take the word of a current state SEC prosecutor over yours regarding responsibility for disclosing risk
Here is my OPINION: Watson is the only winner in all of this. He has funneled off investors’ money to his own safe haven accounts during the “good times” and now that things have gone bad, he claims “losses” in terms of market downturn, didn’t know the market would go south, directing blame away from himself and against the market. He stole the money. He will try to ride through the turmoil and after things cool down, he will fold tent, pull his money from the Swiss bank accounts and enjoy the rest of his life on his ranch in some obscure third-world country that has no extradition treaty with the US
Brent, you are absolutely right. Where I can watch that video you are mentioning?
I am one of the unfortunate investors in the Texas apartment building, project, Villa Nueva I lost $600,000, and may ended up with no place to live, unless Mike will give me a place in his house, and support me for retirement. Maybe I just need to cry on his shoulder. Crying is a good thing when there is nothing to say (Please listen to his first webinar for investors.)
I don’t understand why his other victims are not posting their names and projects they were involved in, I decided to do that first. The thing that most amazes me is that MW has guts to shut up people and threaten them even after loosing millions of dollars.
For his students/friends who still believe in his decency and investing talent , I have only one thing to say: please read my letter, and ask me any questions you would like to. Any $20 investment book gives better investment information than his $12K seminars. At least they are less dangerous for sure.
MW is in the marketing and selling business, he sells whatever he needs to sell at this moment.. I will not be surprise if after this turmoil he will end up selling something else. He thrives on people’s emotional moments, and actively pushes his goals to make money. He also enjoys his power over the audience, this feed his big ego. His business practice is manipulative and deceptive. He is an ignorant and heartless investor, without any consideration of decency using “other peoples money.” He never bothers to pay attention to current economical and financial trends, do more research when investing. Maybe, because it is not his money. Remember his screaming of how the rents will increase in the next few years? A lot of his creative financing stuff is just fairy tale, and also not legal. Don’t want to go in the details here. I believe his teachings are very harmful, this Guru never said even one word regarding risk involved in investing in Real Estate, he was lying regarding the possibility to refinance for cash out when financing landscape was already changed, and when some of his students including me- I am in lending business- were having doubts in refi up to 80% in investment property, he was getting angry and insulting people. His favorite phrase was ”I will shovel he truth in your throat” and “ Don’t tell me you can, ask me how”.
Another lie was his claim at the seminars that his unsecured notes signed by him worth even more than secured ones, that he has so much wealth that investors can rest assured their money will be safe.
Continued from previous post...
The question is –where is his money, where is his wealth, what exactly he is showing at the bus tours? Investors who heard his first webinar, where he was crying like a baby, remember him saying that he didn’t know that he is paying such a high interest on his notes. Question- who was signing this notes? Josh? Rubber stamp? Any other ideas?
My thinking is that he desperately needed money at that time, in April of 2008, when he acquired “cash flowing properties in Texas.”(xo-xo) Villa Nueva never was a cash flowing property- it has NEGATIVE cash flow after interest on my note was paid. This is example of another lie. He kept saying one year ago and even lately on his webinars for investors, that there was some money coming from his apartment buildings in Texas. Not from the Villa! and probably not from the other one which was foreclosed.
Please note at the same webinar he was saying that his seminar business is not doing well for few years 2 or 3? But why would somebody who is not making enough money to cover his expenses will buy new Real Estate? Only insane man or he has his plans. Who can help me here, any ideas? I have an idea , but it is hard to proof. Maybe it was some of his creating financing deals, with repair allowance at the closing and maybe something else after closing?
I just know that I never saw HUD 1.
Wake up people, remember story by Andersen “ the Emperor’s New Clothes” ?
“But he doesn’t have anything on!” MW empire was and is naked.
And it is outrages that after what he has done to us he is threatening his investors with legal actions, what an actor! And terrorizing people that they cannot even use their names, and feel like he is manipulating even this blog! Unbelievable!
I currently have legal representation. I live in Los Angeles, CA. I am looking for other investors who lost money with Mike, regardless of what state they are in. Please contact me at kara52@sbcglobal.net . I will also give you my phone number .I am going to do everything in my power to make his life not comfortable, and not allow him to spread his harm more. Maybe he can make good car salesman, and sometime pay us back(xo-xo) Let’s unite our efforts, and stop this. If any of you has an idea what legal authorities I need to contact, please let me know . It will be kept condidential. Thanks in advance!
For people who want more details-before Villa was foreclosed, MW was offering to give me ownership, in exchange of letting his obligation on the note go. I didn’t have an intention to carry a loan in the amount of $2, 000, 000 on the property which worth half of that amount with 60-65% occupancy! We submitted a lower offer, but then bank didn’t accepted it. End of our investment.
For believers in MW: how could any experienced investor buy investment property that just over a year it is worth half the price? Investment can loose value in bad market, but if it was bought for the right price with equity built in it will not be worth half of what you paid. Question for everybody- would MW buy Villa Nueva with his own money?
Is there anybody who believes it?
(More details on the transaction in my letter.) I just cannot forgive myself, how could I trusted him so blindly, paying top $$ for his teachings and traveling all over the places to listen to him, and make him richer.
Anybody knows what church he belongs to? Where it is located? This man needs a lot of prayer. Please share info with me. I will be confidential. I just want to inform church authorities how he was able to pay his tides.
What other websites you would advise me to post my letters?
One can kill by means of weapon, the others can kill by lying and deceptive practice.
Below some exerpts from my letter to Mike Watson.
Mike,
Please inform me, what you are planning to do?
As I mentioned earlier $600K we invested with you came from HELOC’s on our personal residences. If we are not able to pay monthly interest on that money, we will be on the street. Maybe you can have some place for us to live in your house, or in the garage? There are 4 of us-my Mom lives with me, and my fiancée’s Mom is living with him.
I don’t want to touch here subject of quality of the investment you made in details, but I am always wondering would you invest your money in the Villa? This question is in my mind all the time.
My fiancée is laughing at me because I spent all that money paying for your lectures, followed you all over the places in different states, and here we are. What all the knowledge and experience you have counts for, if it leads to this kind of investment, getting foreclosed at a little bit over one year?
I remember you on the stage telling your students that you don’t have even time to open letters with rental income receivable. I even remember the funny sound you were making showing how you are opening the envelops with your finger. I can picture it all at this very moment. Everybody (including me)was laughing imagining themselves doing it, they were waiting for you to reveal how to become reach like you. Now I know what you were thinking: “Bunch of idiots”
Maybe I can understand that you don’t have cash to pay us, but you supposed to have some Real Estate, or land projects. You were talking about it on all your lectures, of how reach you are, and what you have, you were taking people to bus tour( I missed that one, even thou I paid for it) to show what you have.
Mike, I know you appreciate when people are sharing their stories on your seminars to make it more motivational-here is my story. Sorry, I would not have a chance to cry on the stage, but maybe you can use it in your next book.
……..NOW she lost her house, and she may not support herself at the old age, because her Real Estate Guru invested her home equity money in the wrong investment.
Oops! He acquired piece of Real Estate just last year, but his business was not doing good for sometime(per his admitting that on the webinar- for 2 or 3 years) and instead of taking care of what he already had on his hands, he went out and just thru away $600K.He paid top asking price for project needed rehab money, because he had a Vision.
Oops! That Vision did not include current market conditions trend, and just common sense, which is: buy when the price is right. Do not pay more than it worth it, and particularly in down market. He’s vision was that rental units will go up in the price, but he didn’t have time to look at the data with economics and employment situation.
Here is the secret- It wasn’t his money to begin with. It was OPM-other people’s money.
At his seminars he was claiming that he acquired cash flowing units in Texas, and in front of audience was receiving check from Jim on the stage. I was there, quite a performance!
Continued from previous post...
Oops! He just forgot to mention that there was second lien on the property-money he received from his investors, and project was not able to support it, and there was actually negative cash flow.
Oops! He announced later that he didn’t know that he was paying such a high interest on his notes. He was crying at the webinar saying that he was not aware of it. The question is: WHO was signing the note? His assistants? Rubber stamp? Any other ideas?
Oops! He also forgot to mention that there was need for rehab money, and location of the project was not really nicely speaking the best -surrounded by few similar projects, and all paid utilities with old appliances. He forgot to mention that he didn’t bother to learn market and employment conditions in the area.
Oops! When asked by investor( it was me) about condition of the property at one of the seminars his respond was: ” It is sound investment, no need to worry about it.” At that time sound investment was hit by Hurricane, and on top of very much needed rehab job at acquisition time, there was almost no money from insurance, because policy had high deductibles. Two questions here: Why this policy was bought to begin with, and second -how somebody could claim that investment is sound, when “horse is dying?”
Ops! Cash flowing project Villa Nueva in Texas is a Ghost!
Born in April 2008, died on 07/07/2009. Hallelujah!
But where is $600,000?
“Sorry, Market went bad!”
What is another name for this kind of investment-gamble! No other experienced investor would buy property not considering what it worth, and what it brings, borrowing money from investors, thinking that it will be paid with income from his seminars.
Again and again-this investment has nothing to do with Real estate market!
Please refer to my previous letter expressing my opinion regarding details in investing in Villa Nueva. if you don’t have it anymore, I can resend it to you.
I am asking you to revise all your Real Estate owned including land and make us “whole” using your language. Give us substitute collateral.
One more time-we are paying on our Helocs, it is not easy for us. We may loose our houses very soon.
You are self made millionaire, successful investor, owning a lot of Real estate, why don’t you give us something?
We are waiting to hear from you soon.
……..I am also planning to post this and previous letter on all websites and blogs, I will start with “Mike Watson prophet or con man” blog, and also will forward my letters to your staff. Your treats on suing on defamation will not be applicable because all I will be doing is describing my situation. I will ask all members who suffer losses to contact me, my direct email and phone will be posted. And I promise you: once I have more people involved, I will spend every minute of my time making your life very busy.
I will also contact all your webinar Real Estate guests, some of them like Jeff Adams, and Duncan Wierman I know personally, and the others I am not familiar with as well. All I need to do is to tell them my story.
We need to hear form you before the end of this week.
Regards,
K.
I am investor- student who lost $600000 with Mike Watson on one of his so called cash flowing apartment buildings in Texas. I published letter on this blog, but it was removed, there was a note that it is waiting for moderation, and than it was removed. Can anybody please explain how I can post it again, there was no offensive language .maybe it was too long,and on what other websites I can have my postings? Thanks in advance.
I am willing to publish my story to make all aware how Mike Watson is evaluating his deals in reality, not at the seminars.
I live in Los Angeles.
Currently I have a legal representation, and I am looking for other investors who lost money with MW, please e mail me, and I will provide you with my cell phone number. All information will be kept private. Any advice of what authorities I can turn to will be appreciated, even thou I am already working on it.
Anybody who is interested to know the whole story please e mail me, I would love to forward to you my letters to MW.
What’s new with this guy ?
Any news would be appreciated.
kw
I know him personally. He is self centered and ego-centric. He certainly believes in himself and finds no folley in his ways. Anyone really listening to him speak and not just looking at the POTENTIAL dollars in returns would easily be able to see he is all puff and no guru of anything.
Attendees of his siminar can complain all they want, but anyone that gave him a dime without protecting themselves first is just a fool. No, the SEC will not come running to your rescue.
I seriously doubt he stole anyone’s money, even unintentially if that be the allegation. The man sacrificed his family to work – he is the definition of a workaholic. He dumped everything he ever had into his company and his investments. He’s sitting on his throne of dirt with nothing right now.
Dispite not ever wanting to ever be in the same room as this guy, I must defend him as at least a fool with a pretty mouth. You should blame yourself for being dupped into such an obvious empty set of promises to make tonnes of cash.
Meh, maybe I am a fool as you say. However, there are rules when you raise capital. These rules are especially restrictive when you do not hold a securities license. Neither Mike Watson nor Josh Escobedo have securities licenses. They lied to me when they solicited my life savings. Was I a fool? Maybe. Were securities laws violated? I believe so, and so do lawyers with both the SEC and the Utah Division of Securities. If you want to draw a correlation between my IQ and my being a victim of fraud, be my guest.
I don’t care how hard Mike Watson and Josh Escobedo work. Why should I care about the sacrifices he has made in order to steal my money, and the money of others? I resent your implication that all of us who invested under false pretenses merely got what we deserved.
Brent,
Have you gotten together with Kara? I know her and all the others who have been defrauded are forming a group to stop Mike Watson once and for all. You really need to make connection with her and work together
I have known Mike in business for many years. He is a very honest person and has integrety. It is a pleasure to know Mike. When the real estate market goes bad we want to blame someone. If the market comes back we will all be calling him a genius. Give the guy a break and let’s look at our own shortcomings.
Ok, I gotta share this because its too funny. Mike watson is still hawking his wares, and I just got an email where he wants me to go and look at a video of Kevin and Jim. Here’s the quote from his email.
“Since Oct 2006 we have 14 closed transactions with a volume of $6,896,000. We have only spent $8,000 of our own money. The total future value of the properties is $59,230,000. Part of the above purchases was 145 cash flowing units. We have a $17,747 per month net positive cash flow after all expenses and debt service just on those 145 units. Finally we now have 9 employees and 27 members on our ‘Power Team’. All of this is because of Mike Watson.”
– Jim Stephens and Kevin Liu
If you HAVEN’T given the videos a view yet, let me urge you to do so immediately. I know you’ll be impressed by what we’ve got waiting for you.”
Ok, now the ironic part. Kevin and Jim have had at least one deal foreclosed on and investors lost millions in that deal. there other deals are in trouble too, and I heard that they’ve had other property foreclosed too, and are not working together anymore.
It’s just ironic that Mike is still peddling his stuff. I just dont know who is buying into his theories anymore. Not sure why anyone would after the ‘results’ that both he and his ’star’ students have gotten.
I first attended a seminar from mike over 4 years ago and I have done a lot with the education, on paper I made millions, but that all came crashing down when I realized equity is just a dream until you sell. I have been up on stage many times talking about my deals and even have some family money invested with him. I am in a similar position as mike in that I cannot make payments to my investors.
The biggest problem stems from cash flow, or lack of it. My stratagy was bleed a little bit of my investors money so that the light at the end of the tunnel would replenish the well and pay everyone substantial returns. Mike recognizes this problem and has adjusted by making his only focus based on cash flow, as have I. For awhile he was able to handle the negative cash flow from the deals because he made the cash flow from the seminars. So for those of you that think he was out buying ferarri’s and jets, you’re wrong, he was paying his investors and employees.
If the focus had been on cash flow from the begining, then this website would not exist. I would also be in a much better position today. I am not going to argue about deceptive practices or lack of disclosure. I am going to mention that we are all adults and are fully capable of making our own decisions. Anyone who has been to a MWI camp knows that there is good information being taught. Any true entreprenuer needs to be prepared to fail 10 times, but with every failure comes lessons learned and I have definately learned a few.
I still plan on attending mike’s camps in the future. Will I follow his exact system, NO. But I know that there is good information there that is applicable to the deals I am doing/putting together.
For those looking to get paid back, does it really make sense to try to shut him down, considering the root of the problem is lack of cash flow? If he keeps going with his focus being on cash flow, then he will be able to make good on his payments. Mike knows that if he can improve his reputation he will make a lot more money in the long run. Even if it is for his own personal gains, I believe he will perform.
To Brent, the attorney representing investors who have been victimized. Shouldn’t you tell us what law firm you are with so that everyone knows you are legit? There are MWI trolls on here trying to identify people so that Mike can make his threats of suing for defamation. He is blowing smoke since stating fact is not defamation…but hey, he is a bully trying to steal someone’s lunch money. Please identify yourself and firm. Thanks.
Hah! How cool is this? I just contacted my credit card company to get a refund for my last camp based on this blog! I gave them the blog and got an email the next day that they would be doing a charge back from MWI. How cool is that? I was at a camp in Houston where Mike was boasting about his Houston apartment deal with Jim and Kevin, all the while it was being foreclosed! Glad I’m going to be getting my money back from this huckster…
That’s very dishonest of you. You are demanding a free ticket to a seminar of which you already attended? Yeah, he made some bad decisions and lost a bunch of money, but you paid to get information from him and you got that information.
hey “honest John”,
I paid to get REAL information from someone who presented himself as a real estate investing guru and genius….
well, come to find out that WHILE he was teaching the camp, several deals had already been foreclosed…OOPS he forgot to mention that….also forgot to mention that he was preparing to file bankruptcy…OOPS….
That’s called false advertising to say the least
Hello,
I am an attorney representing one of the investors who lost their money in the Chateau Pinehurst deal of Mike’s that was foreclosed last month in Texas. I am looking to make contact with other investors who have also lost money investing with Mike. It doesnt matter what state you are from. I would like to hear from you directly if you or someone you know also lost money. You can email me at brenttop123@gmail.com
I hear people are filing complaints with the FTC to get reimbursed and there is a blog referencing it here plus on ripoff.com. However, if he files BK then how would we ever get paid back?
He already is filing personal BK, so you gotta get in and get your money back now before the BK kicks in. My bank card was all over it.
The bk didn’t stop the forclosure in Maricopa county on 8-4-09. A trustee told me that he had not filed bk of 5 p.m. on 8-3-09.
Mike may have to file bk to ward off the
Deficiency suits by lenders. The IRS will also be looking for the tax on the forgiven debt.
I am not to be the judge of Mike’s behavior one way or the other. I WOULD like my money back for a seminar I have not attended. His people say it is not possible……I ask why not? If anyone has some constructive advice how to get the return of money I am listening
I had a similar problem with Mike and his office. The best thing to do is contact your credit card company and do a charge back. You can just tell them that this guy turned out to be a fraud, and refer them to this website. If you just go after it, the bank will refund you regardless of what his office does
Susan,
Hello. I am wondering if you were able to get a refund for the camps? did you sign up for all the degree camps? how many did you go to? I’m having the same problem.
Wow!!!, I stumbled across this just this morning, I actually have a job interview as a property manager for this company….thinking twice….yes! Any suggestions? I have a ton of PM experience and the last thing I need is to get a bad name by working for a company like this.
Stay as far away as possible. If this blog doesnt convince you of that, then I really dont know what to say. You dont want to be mixed up with Mike Watson as his ship sinks…
So, what’s the newest info regarding Mike Watson. I was at a camp recently where he said the SEC would probably force him to file bankruptcy. Then someone said in here that he said he was filing personal bankruptcy on a conference call. Is that what’s happening now? A good friend has lost money on Mike, Kevin and Jim’s Chateau Pinehurst deal in Texas that was foreclosed last month. Any chance of any recovery for him? I told him not to hold his breath…
can someone here please post the SEC contact information for California, Utah, Nevada, Washington, Oregon and Florida? I think those are the main states where Mike sold securities without a license.
We need to get the contact info out to all those who he sold securities to, so they can make formal complaints with their respective SEC office. Utah already has a formal investigation started, and it will be important for the other SEC offices to make contact with them
So, someone please post phone numbers/emails and then let people know who invested with Mike about the blog, so they can then make their complaints to the various SEC offices
Mike reminds me of so many people that put money first, and their family, health, honesty and character second. Instead of reveling in his failure, I feel for the man. He’s put all of his attention and effort towards things that are really of no worth in the long run, and now he’s losing the material things that he’s put his heart upon.
But I dont think he will learn his lesson until it all comes crashing down for him. Hopefully he will still have his family, and ANYONE left around him that loves and cares for him. He’s just left such a wake of destruction behind him. It’s sad, and I dont like watching anyone destroy themselves.
I’d be interested to hear from two groups of people here. First, any employee like Brittany who has worked closely with Mike and secondly, the ’star’ students who Mike had paraded on stage.
My gut feeling is that Mike used those students on stage as marketing propaganda, and that they didnt do the things that he said. I am not blaming them, in fact I think Mike really encouraged it because he needed them for ’social proof’ to get people to buy in that his stuff worked.
I have heard from some close sources to Mike that NONE of those gurus had made money on deals. It was all POTENTIAL profit, not realized profit.
So, let me get this straight…
Mike Watson admits to losing millions of dollars for investors….
He admits that he’s going to have to file bankruptcy….
he admits he’s a hack, and seminar guru, NOT an investing guru….
And I go to his website, and the guy is still pushing some bullshit bootcamp? LOL. Either this guy has more gall than anyone I have ever met, or people really ARE that stupid, and will continue to buy crappy advice from a crappy investor…amazing…LOL
curious, my second post, a day after the webinar did not publish. In short, Mike did a mea culpa, apologized to student/investors who lost money and indiicated that it appeared the best way for him to attempt restitution was to file personally. Beyond that he stated the obvious, that the land development deals were cleaning his clock beyond the ability of the cash flow deals to compensate. He carped a bit about some personal attacks and references to his family, but spent most of the time expressing regret that he misjudged the market. The several posts above expressing the “take responsibility for yourself and your decisions” are sentiments I agree with entirely, which is not to give Mike or anyone else a pass on understating the risks or overselling the ease with which one can profit in this market. I think Mike has some pretty good material but there is a learning curve and tuition to pay. JMO, YMMV.
Mike’s doing a pre-emptive strike on his calls now, and blaming that the ‘SEC’ may force him to file bankruptcy. What’s really going on is that he suspects the SEC is going to be investigating him very soon, so he’s pre-empting what may happen by bringing it up himself.
It’s interesting to hear from the supporters of Mike. The common threads between them are:
a) they never personally did a deal with Mike
b) they were not in a position to see ‘behind’ the scenes
I guess the secret in dealing with Mike then is to not do any deals and stay away from getting too close where you would see the truth. If it’s working for them, great. I would be interested, however, to see proof that these supporters have made more than they have lost following Mike’s advice. I doubt that is the case
I knew Mike Watson personally and I can tell you that he was the most unpleasant man I ever had the misfortune of meeting. I actually worked as a receptionist in his office and it always puzzled me that people so willingly ate up the garbage he talked about. The properties he owns are dilapidated hell holes. Most of the clients that buy into the camps go into collections because they don’t read the fine print. It didn’t matter if you had brain cancer, you had to pay or you were going to PAY.
I finally quit when he asked an employee what was more important, work or his son’s first grade school program. Guess what answer he expected.
Not only that, I had the unfortunate responsibility to edit a book he was publishing himself. I’ve never read such a load of drivel in my life. One chapter was on how ‘failure’ isn’t possible, then the next chapter is about how you’re a failure if you don’t do this that and the other.
Honestly, I don’t know if his advice pays off, I just know that I wouldn’t buy a product from someone like him.
And no, I’m not a disgruntled employee, I worked hard and I loved what I did. I just didn’t like the Mike Watson part of it.
Brittany-
Please share this blog with the people who really know the truth about Mike so we can get their input here. Current employees can post anonymously, and of course, former employees can post directly like you have.
Are you related to Donna and the other Hansens?
Nope, I’m not related to them but they’re great people and I liked them a lot.
Well well, Isn’t this interesting. Sure is a LOT of bitching and whining going on here. And yes, I do recognize some of the authors. Isn’t it also interesting that a first AND last name are only attached to a mere few. Some of you know me, some of you don’t. Doesn’t matter much. Many of you here probably supported Obama too. Oopsie.. Did I just say that? You’re damn skippy I did. What are we? A bunch of children? Can’t think for ourselves? Sure MW has a degreee in psychology. So. Did he force you to invest your money with him? Sure, he pushed, prodded and encouraged but YOU still made the choice. Right? “Sorry” (like Simon Cowell) Don’t mean to be harsh.
Like Erik Lunsford and Steve Tobias; I took what MW taught me and put it to work (and if you discount the education or think that it is worthless; you’re an idiot). Some deals worked and I made great $$ and some didn’t. Hey, that’s life. Get over it. I can’t begin to address the many issues here so I won’t bother. MW is human. He makes a boat load of mistakes. No doubt. But you know what? He’s NOT the only one. And obviously… A LOT of people made some very bad choices. But isn’t that the crux? It’s a choice. We all make them. Own it. People I consider to be good friends have lost $$ with MW and otherwise. And for that, I am sorry. Truly sorry. It really sucks.
But timing is EVERYTHING people! And if you aren’t getting on this horse right now and buying with seller financing; well let’s just say that would be a very poor choice. This market is unbelievable. My company is getting seller financing and AITD’s at least once a month and soon closer to once a week.
We are INCREASING our marketing efforts both offline and online. That’s right. Social media. Look in to it.
So, hammer MW if you must but how about just a little responsibility for oneself. In Feb. 2006 I went to my first 2 day camp in LA. MW put the ‘mic’ in my face and said “why did it take you so long to sign up?” (I had gone to 3 free seminrs first). And I replied, “Because I am a BIG time skeptic”. I have since graduated from all 8 camps and honestly, I wouldn’t trade it but I have NEVER lost that skepticism. It was money well spent. But… But I always took it w/a grain of salt. Skepticism is healthy.
Ok. That’s enough. But I will leave you with this. We have got some fantastic cash flowing deals right here in so cal. We need buyers ASAP (or sellers of units). So, if you know of any healthy skeptics that understand that investing in RE is a risk, send me an email. mike@blueoco.com
Rock on.
Good point, seems like a lot of people were dumb enough to pay thousands for training and expected it to eliminate ALL risk? Real estate is bad for not only MW investors who invested over the last few years, but also big shots like Tom Nolan of General Growth- he took a risk and lost almost 2 billion because of the market downturn… Crying about Mike won’t keep the bitches who post on this blog out of bankruptcy either. Go provide for your families and invest in the deals that make sense in this market, stop beating a dead horse
Curtis-
I think the point that the vast majority of posters here are expressing is not that they lost money, etc, but that the RISKS of investing the way Mike taught were never disclosed. Read the post from Gary below. He’s been a developer for 30+ years, and what Mike taught was basically real estate development (he is not teaching that now, only focusing on cash flow).
The biggest flaw in his prior system is that he did NOT disclose to his students, almost ALL of which had no development experience, the RISKS associated with development. Where was his degree camp on risk management??? I also get a chuckle out of his ‘foundation to success’. You know, if the property doesn’t sell, just refinance! Yeah right. News flash, doesn’t work in a down market…pretty shaky foundation
There are two reasons Mike did not disclose the risks. First, he had a seminar business to run, and discussing the level of difficulty and risk with students does not lead to more sales of degree camps,etc.
Second, many of the tactics mike taught were theory, meaning he had never personally done them, but thought they were good strategies. Obviously if you have never done something, you are not aware of all the risks associated with the strategy you are teaching…
So before you say ’stop whining’ to the people on this blog, several of which have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars investing WITH MIKE IN MIKE’S DEALS, you should realize that Mike had a responsibility to disclose the risks of what he was teaching, and he DID NOT do that.
That is not ok, and is very typical of seminar gurus like Mike
I’ll start off with what I like about this system. Then go onto what I don’t like. Please prepare for a long post.
Please hear me out because: I am myself a sibling of a multimillionare entreprenur. Also note: This sibling of mine has no connection to MWI or anything real-estate related. But in similar fashion they go around the country teaching seminars, coaching, mentoring, branding themselves, selling educational materials, coaching packages, so I have a deep inside experience with the business behind the scenes.
Here is my experience. It’s a great education, practical, and can be put to work.
When your not tied to traditional bank loans, simply buying and selling properties as if they are stock, a lot more can be done for long term wealth. Lets be honest, all wealthy people own property!
There is a large supporting community to go with these teachings.
What I DON’T LIKE can be applied to any succesfull entrepenuer who teaches seminars and camps etc…:
TO BE USED AT THE FULL POTENTIAL YOU MUST HAVE AN “ALL OR NOTHING” “BALLS TO THE WALL” “WON’T TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER” “YOUR WHOLE WORLD IS ABOUT TO CRASH AND YOU KEEP ON PUSHING” “QUIT MY JOB ON THE SPOT TO START A JOURNEY” “ACT AS IF” “ILL MAX OUT MY 8TH CREDIT CARD IF I HAVE TO” personality.
Thats the truth. If that ISN’T your personality its like wearing a suit that doesnt fit. You may be forcing and start the ball rolling but after a while you’ll scream get me out of this thing. I say this because I know many wealthy entrepenures thru my sibling. I’ve also noticed that among these multimillionares I personall is similar traits. They are either 1. Single, or 2. Divorced. 3. Have no children. 4. Are married with children but might as well not have them – they are just “not there.” For years I hung out with these folks only to find out later the “it’s” all about me lifestyle they live.
Poeple like Mike will try to guilt trip and mind trick you that you can do it too and be like me. “We’re not leaving until 10 people sign up for all 8 camps” “Do you wanna spend your entire day just making a living, or be wealthy and have time to spend with your family by following my system.” I loved Mikes camps but the moments of selling more stuff after building everyones emotions to a peak just really left a bad taste in my mouth.
For our (wife and I) future we’re going to focus on income properties and thats about it. We just can’t imagine ourselves going through hell and back until we own our own development company, coming home from work at 7PM and then working till midnight in our “real estate investment company”
Part II, my comment accidently submitted.
So what I’ve learned about people like Mike and my sibling is, they actally do “DO” the stuff they teach. And they at least “DID IT”. What happens is the following. At some point they realize there is more money to made in the marketing and the teaching. One more time — the marketing and the teaching than there is doing the actuall stuff they teach. THEY CAN DO THE STUFF THEY TEACH, THEY DO DO THE STUFF THEY TEACH. But one more time there is MORE MONEY to be made in the marketing, and teaching, and merchandising. So thats what they do. When my sibling realized they could make more money teaching, seminaring, coaching, selling books and t-shirts etc,,, they stuck to that and became a multi millionare.
Thats why they offer “free camps” and claim to not make money on that stuff. It’s to get you there and build your emotions then bingo,$12,000 on your credit card. Then you end up buying a mike watson t-shirt, then a mike watson book you’ll never have time to read or make time to read. I’m so sorry but it doesn’t matter if it’s REAL ESTATE, NETWORKING, INTERNET ADVERTISING, BOOKS, OR MAKING MILLIONS SELLING PIZZA, it’s the same “SEMINAR GURU IN A BOX” business plan. I’ve been to my siblings events, and my sibling friends events and it’s the SAME STRUCTURE AND FRAMEWORK with a different topic, product and content. So like Mike Stambaugh says take it with a grain of salt and skepticism is good. The reality is you’ll be able to do bits and pieces of what they do. Nobody needs to be “ALL IN” save that for religion. Also.
I do amire these people for what they are able to do, where my heart really gets stabbed is when they convince people who barely have the motivation to work that they can do it to, save it for the superstars….
So what was said on the call last night. I missed it but I think he was playing victim again and trying to get all his sheeple to convince themselves and their investors to give him more time to come out of this. The Spin was In! Anyone hear the call? Please give details.
I think the danger in what Mike does is this (and remember, he’s sly as a fox and knows what he’s doing):
1. His target market is INEXPERIENCED investors. They are in ‘awe’ of him and his claimed accomplishments
2. He promises outlandish returns, which if you were a seasoned investor you would know, and the dollar signs and people’s greed sucks them in. It’s the ‘get rich’ effect. He teaches people to look at real estate as the lottery. Just one deal and your rich forever…..
3. Here’s the kicker…Mike Watson makes NO MENTION OF THE RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT. I’ve been developing for 30+ years, and believe me, the returns are big because the risks are big. I’ve lost my ass multiple times. Welcome to the world of real estate development. Just ask Donald Trump. He lost his ass in the 80’s but came back. Mike basically teaches a hack-job version of real estate development, BUT never discusses the risks. Why you ask? Because he is running a SEMINAR BUSINESS, not a development business.
***NEWS FLASH EVERYONE*** IF MIKE WAS EVER MAKING THE MONEY HE CLAIMED, WHY WOULD HE OR ANYONE IN THAT POSITION TEACH???
Dont be naive. His money comes from holding seminars, plain and simple.
4. His ’system’ the foundation to success, is CONTINGENT on banks lending. If banks dont lend, his system falls apart. His big thing is that you refinance and hold for an equity position if it doesnt sell. Well, that doesnt work in a down market, as property values and LTV’s are falling. which he is finding out as his properties get forclosed.
Lets all just be smarter in the future. If it sounds too good to be true, it is. Everyone got a little ‘drunk’ in the boom cycle. Ive seen it three or four times now. Live and learn, and move on.
Alexander,
I dont see it as hating. I see both sides to this, but if there are people who truly have been or are being hurt by Mike or what he teaches, I think the word should get out, to warn others.
I never invested with him, nor would I, and I did find it odd how he would raise money from strangers in class. I dont think that’s even allowed. Isnt that an SEC violation? You have to have established relatinoships, etc…
Anyway, I’m glad this info is getting out there so people can have both sides of the story
Hello again,
well i have updated myself on this site and find it intersting that some of you thought I was Mike Watson…..So the answer is NO I am not. While I am not a raving fan of Mike Watson I would not say I am against him either. Who I am is a developer in Houston, Texas we are LaneWalker Holdings I am sure that one of you have knowledge of us and what we are trying to do to help. Make no mistake I am in this to profit. That being said if there was work abundant I would not even be dealing with this……so to our credit we are developing our own projects from the ones the MWI students have put together. In Houston the the projects are decent but can be great with a few tweaks and time. Some of the projects however are not going to be able to be salvaged. More later……..
Hey all. I posted this on the ripoff report. Everyone should post their experiences there so we can get the word out to any new victims who may be suckered in by Mike.
Let’s shut him down so he doesn’t damage anyone else.
Here’s the link. You can post your own there as well:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/460/RipOff0460460.htm
My Name is Erik Lunsford.
I have purchased and learned volumes of specific information relating to real estate investing from Mike Watson by both going to his classes and by reading and rereading the high quality hard copy background and study materials he supplies at every class. It was expensive and in some cases out of my purchasing ability but I took a risk and (using some funding from credit cards) I shelled out the money over $50,000 including travel expenses. I applied the teachings and systems after choosing my investing area and developing not just one area of expertise (as Mike teaches) but several areas of expertise. [I wanted to compare the rates of return that I could achieve in multiple areas. One area is plenty but I wanted to do more.] After a tremendous amount of work requiring me and my wife to reduce the amount of time we put forth to make our usual income we have built a solid portfolio of 27 units from an initial investment of $5,000 and raising some capitol along the way. All of the properties were selected using the higher and better use method and in considering the properties potential to create maximum income from the minimum amount of work or money.
I also want to tell you that having been burned by so called Guru’s in business deals before. As a result I went to many real estate seminars before choosing Mike as a mentor. My reasons for my choice was the massive amount of information Mike makes available and the passion he has for investing.
I have learned from past experience what works for someone else may not work for me, so I wanted not just some of the information but all I could get my hands on.
I also want to tell you that Mike is not my only mentor in investing I read books by Donald Trump, Warren Buffet, Conrad Hilton, Benjamin Graham etc. I also have several mentors in both real estate and in business here where I live and invest along with owning a residential – commercial construction company and being a real estate agent. Some of the mentors I have locally control more than $150,000,000 in assets and are very difficult to get a hold of and even though I make my self available to them, they usually do not provide me with much information. They are busy making money and are also in some respects in competition with me for opportunities.
I have not partnered with Mike Watson. I have not invested in his deals. This is mostly due to a desire to be self-reliant. I did not believe that partnering would benefit us more than doing it ourselves. This has been the correct decision. As we have learned mountains of information in the act of doing. Not investing in his deals was simply a result of wanting our money to go towards our future and out knowledge once again a self-reliance decision.
I am currently finding properties every day using the tools and systems Mike Watson sold me. And the properties I find work for my investing plan! Every time! If I spent all of the money just on learning how to find properties it would have been well spent as just one of the properties we purchased has RIGHT NOW more than enough equity to cover all of my costs. And this is real equity built from cash flow. As a matter of fact two weeks ago we raised the rents on a duplex totaling 275$ / month. Using my mortgage calculator $275 as a payment, 30 year term, 7% interest = 41,334.58 Loan Amount. And this happened in just one day with no increase of costs. This of course means pure profit. I can now either pay down the mortgage ( accelerate the payments every month), use the money to pay another mortgage ( like my house) or just spend the money.
I have no desire to sell any of the properties we have purchased. I don’t need to and don’t want to. I have seen so many deals during the time I have been a real estate agent (7 Years) and most require the investor to sell the property. This is not the right investment model for us. Mike taught me how to keep all of the properties and where the real wealth is created for this I am thankful. He also provided information to me which I could not get anywhere else and for this I am indebted.
If you are going to write something on this blog please limit it to actual real information and experiences you have had directly with Mike Watson.
Investing is hard enough don’t make it any harder by creating confusion!
Well, I am a recovering “Partner” with Mike and all the bad stuff on here is undeniably true. He, in my humble opinion, is no better than Nadoff and taking people’s hard earned $ and life savings to pay off the next sucker in line at his camps. I never drank the Kool-Aid and never will. He is a conman and will get his just desserts. I am proud that people are seeing the light and the real truth at what he has done. The irony is that some of what he teached was actually good, which is sad that he had to take it way over the line, be GREEDY and want to take over the world. This is just his need to build his empire here on Earth for his Kingdom in Heaven. There were a lot of people who had no business giving their life savings to this crazy man! We all should have done a better job of researching him. Remember this, “There was so much writing on the wall, that the wall fell down” (jewish proverb). Well, unfortunately for Mike and everyone who trusted and invested with him and paid for ALL the camps and posters and t-shirts and books and on and on and on……IT WAS ALL A LOAD OF CRAP!
How can you state that you are recovering MWI “Partner”, then 2 sentences later state “that you never drank the cool-aid”? Well which is it, did you drink the cool-aid and partner on a transaction with Mike, or did you not drink the cool-aid and never partnered with him? Make up your mind and take a stand for something.
i am another unfortunate investor, please e mail me at kara52@sbcglobal.net
Wow: Theres a whole lot of hating going on here. I am a broker here in San Diego and have been to a few of Mike’s camps. He is a good motivator and if anything he teaches people that it can happen and to make it happen. I have not invested with him or partnered with him. I myself with all my knowledge (and I’ve been through the last downturn) have seen my real estate investment depreciate over a 100k and I have another personal loan I gave to someone to rehab thier place for 100k which was due and payable in 1 year. That was 3 years ago. We have all been hit hard. We are all responsible for our own actions. Regarding my investment property, well I’ll just hold on however long it takes. Real Estate always goes up in the long term. If anyone is to blame it would be wall street and all the derivatives of these investments. For those who have lost including myself, I’m sorry. Just remember there are many who have lost it all and have bounced back 10 fold!
I am an investor who lost money with Mike Watson, and I’ll be on the call. What frustrates me to no end is that they dont take live calls on their ‘conference’ calls. They dont allow anyone to speak, or even to see the questions from other people on the call typed in.
Robert, in that email you posted from MWI, they say “Our goal is to maintain open communication and full disclosure with our customers, partners and students.”
If that is their goal, then why wont they let us talk on the call, or see the questions being asked??????????
I never get answers from them, and they only reply by email….very frustrating when you just lost hundreds of thousands of dollars
20Rate This
I have to post here anonymously as “Jim” because I do not trust Mike Watson AT ALL. I know first had what the guys is capable of….
I would like to reply to Steve above, who I assume is Steve Tobias. I could be wrong, but correct me if I am.
First of all, let me establish why I am probably the most credible person who could post here. First, your allegation that the people posting here are armchair quarterbacks is completely false and without merit. I know several of the posters personally, and they are legit, and have been thru Mike’s bullshit training.
I personally have done millions of dollars in deals over the last couple years, and some (thank GOD not many) with MWI, so I have INTIMATE understanding of his process.
But what qualifies me more than ANYONE here to post is that I was one of Mike’s STAR students, you know, the guys he brings up on stage and does his bullshit rah rah rah sessions; but what you DONT know is what REALLY happens behind the curtian. MIKE WATSON IS SMOKE AND MIRRORS PEOPLE! WAKE UP!!! HE IS A CLASSIC CON MAN AND SOME OF YOU ZOMBIES WILL ONLY WAKE UP TO THAT ONCE HE IS BEING CARTED OFF TO PRISON OR SHUT DOWN! He has NOT done many of the deals or made the profits he claims. How do I know?
Check this out…
In one of his bullshit deal books, I believe entitled ‘deals of the century’ he lists several deals that he claims to have personally done. NEWS FLASH! We actually had preliminary titles pulled on those deals, and 50%, yes that is right, HALF of the deals were NOT done by Mike Watson! But that’s just the beginning of his deceit…
Mike Watson has incredible charisma, which is what sucks people in. Believe me, I was sucked in just like everyone else. Dont forget he has a degree in Psychology, and he puts it to good use. He gains people’s confidence, and then when he does wrong by them, they take it because of the ’spell’ that he puts people under. Believe me, I know. I saw up close and personal. I got a first hand look at what really goes on behind the curtains…
Why do you think his own brother wont speak to him? did you know his wife was VERY close to leaving him on several occasions? She cant stand Mike and how controlling he is. She WANTS a divorce but feels trapped. (you may be thinking how do I know this,and I cant reveal the source, but I will say it is from a VERY intimate family source to his wife). His sweet mother in law Donna CANT STAND HIM and feels so sorry for her daughter for marrying that man. He even screwed his OWN MOTHER out of money before she left on a mission for their church. She was livid with him. Can you believe that? Dont believe me? Ask Mike’s own mother if you can find out how to reach her nowadays…. A GUY WHO HAS THIS KIND OF RELATINOSHIP WITH HIS FAMILY AND WILL SCREW OVER HIS OWN MOTHER DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOU!
I witnessed on several occasions where he would speak nice about someone to their face, and then violently berate them behind their back. At first I was so completely shocked, but what was more shocking was that it was COMMON PRACTICE! It was vicious, and like there was a side to Mike that was so completely vindictive that it was scary. Regarding this, you can speak with ANYONE who has had a falling out with MIke, and the number of people are LEGION!
Continued from previous post...
He would lie CONSTANTLY on stage. He would say things like “I have never lost money in a deal” or give figures of money he made on deals that we knew had NOT realized ANY profit. You can verify this with Dean Severns, Rich in Vegas, Jim and Kevin in Houston, Jason in Seattle, Wayne Hyatt, Martha and Irene in Phownix Demi or Steve in Vegas, Tim Huyck in California, and a MYRIAD of other people who KNOW the truth about Mike Watson. IN FACT, I’m going to see if I can get phone numbers posted here so you can call all the people Mike has screwed and ask if what I am telling you is true. I GUARANTEE they will back up what is being said here, every word! Mike will LOVE that! The last thing he wants is for people to actually contact folks who know the truth, and will tell you straight, not his bullshit versions of how things go down. Remember, he’s got a SEMINAR busienss to protect, so the info you get will be scrubbed and prepared to protect his business….he has an incentive to be dishonest…
We would always be in amazement at seminars when he would say he didnt make money on the seminars, when he was NETTING 50 and sometimes 100k+ on the room. Yes, that’s 100 THOUSAND dollars on several occasions. He had the gall to tell the students that he wasn’t making money on the seminars, and only on the deals. Well folks, it’s the OTHER WAY AROUND! 95% of Mike’s millions of dollars in revenue (yes, MILLIONS) has come from seminars, NOT deals….
Have you not noticed the UNHEALTHY amount of attention he commands? Ever been to one of his ‘crying’ fests, where he ‘breaks’ down in front of the crowd to get sympathy – IT’S ORCHESTRATED PEOPLE!!! It’s part of the show, the act to suck you in, and make you feel sorry for him and defend him like Steve is now.
Consider these facts:
Mike Watson will NOT have anyone around him who will challenge his views. NO PEERS. Ever notice that? The only people he keeps, or who are willing to stand with him are people like Josh Escebado. Josh is so brainwashed by Mike that he thinks that he’s ONLY successful because of Mike. It’s like the battered wife syndrome!! I’ve seen Mike berate and belittle jost to the point of TEARS, and what does Josh do? He will say, “I deserved that”, just like a battered wife would say to a friend about an abusive spouse! What he should say is “FUCK YOU MIKE, I will succeed without you and your abuse!”. Josh could completely succeed on his own, but he doesnt believe that he can because Mike has beaten him down so much. It’s REALLY VERY SAD, and I feel from Josh. It was so sad to see how he was treated.
Continued from previous post...
Josh is a dependent type personality, and Mike knows exactly how to pick them out. He targets dependent people and gathers them around him, BECAUSE ANY NORMAL PERSON WOULD TELL HIM TO FUCK OFF WITH THE WAY HE TREATS PEOPLE! Seriously, it was amazing to me to see how much shit people would take from that guy…
But that is how Mike Watson rolls and treats all of his staff. Treats them like dogs. Just ask his employees (confidentially of course). Ask about his tantrums, his rants and his berating of those around him. ITS LEGENDARY!
I’m glad someone started this blog. It’s time that the truth come out about Mike Watson and shut his business down once and for all. HE IS A CON MAN. Look up the definition in wikipedia, and then really think about Mike…and TAKE IT FROM SOMEONE WHO WAS ON THE INSIDE FOR YEARS AND WHO KNOWS THE TRUTH…
I personally will not rest until this snake oil salesman is finally shut down. The damage he has done to people all across the country is unimaginable. IT will take the action of several former MWI students to stand up and take a stand so that we protect future people from being hurt by Mike.
I hope all of you will post complaints to the FTC and demand refunds from this guy who has lost MILLIONS of dollars for investors, but who is still out there selling his bullshit. THE GALL OF THIS MAN IS AMAZING!
I hope you will forward this blog to everyone who has lost money either with Mike Watson, or as a student trying to implement what he teaches. Again, thank you to whoever finally is getting the truth out with this blog!
You are absolutely right about the way he treats his employees. I’m not posting under an anonymous name because really, what can he do to me now? When I worked there I was warned that if my pregnancy kept me away from the office I would lose my job. He didn’t pay his employees overtime, and because of some loop holes, he can’t get in trouble for it. Believe me, I tried. I don’t know if you knew Josh Call, but isn’t it strange that Mike’s own in house attorney would pack up his desk and leave the office one day and never come back. There’s a very high turnover rate with Mike, that should be a red flag for future ’students’.
Brittany, you have no clue what you’re even saying. I knew you when you were working in that office and believe me Mike was not the only thing you hated in your life.
You have no clue why Josh Call left, and your assumption is so far off that it makes you sound stupid. To say the least that man had one too many skeletons hidden in his office. Also please don’t say that you knew Mike personally either because you didn’t you only knew him as an employer so please stop with the lies.
Its fine that you don’t like him or the way he conducted business, you are entitled to your opinion but don’t come on here and post things to justify your hatred.
I love it how you say Mike doesn’t pay over time because of “some loop holes”. Well you are right on one thing he doesn’t pay it, but your so called “loop holes” is called “salary”. Nice try Brittney.
I was an employee of MWI and occasionally check to see what is becoming of the company. During my employment, a few MWI employees regularly checked the web in attempts to get rid of, limit, or defend the amount of “bad” info or “misleading” info available. I see the practice is still in use. This is the first time I have seen such a collection.
I can say the treatment Brittany received was inappropriate for any employer in the short time she worked at MWI. I heard the extremely rude comments made regarding her when she left. This sort of thing was not a rare occurrence. The duality of Mike’s personality was startling. It was the only company I considered taking legal action against when I left.
In Mike’s defense, he is incredibly talented and intelligent at what he does. He has the added benefit of having a psychology background to achieve his goal(s). I was incredibly impressed and awed at his skill. For those who don’t believe his psych degree applies to his business practices: He made a great example of practical application for my classes as a university student studying the behavioral sciences. You will notice the feel-good pop-psychology filling the pages of his writings. Perhaps motivational speaker and lecturer would’ve been a successful and excellent career choice.
I do not believe he deserves the title conman, as we are all human. Mike is a tragic visionary. We had often been “informed” of the grand scheme of things and how successful we were as a company. The company never grew during my time there. That told me something was up. I couldn’t buy into the company vision. MWI appeared to be dependent on tuition from seminars not real estate investing.
I can verify what “Jim” states about the employees. (sans the die-hard loyalists who will defend him until long after the company is gone.) It is saddening to see the outcome but gratifying to know that I wasn’t the only one “on the inside” who saw major problems.
First of all, use your real name. Second, my name is spelled Brittany and it’s right there above my comment so if you could please spell it correctly next time.
And the loop holes weren’t salary. I had to input times onto the time cards and if someone (salary or not) went over 40 hours, I had to change the time to make it less than that.
Next, I’d like to say that even if I knew who you were, I wouldn’t make snide comments about your personal life as you did mine. I’m fairly sure you have no idea about my life because the people I used to talk to at the office are still my friends now. So don’t say that you knew me ‘personally’ either.
i lost $600000 with MW, Please e mail me at kara52@sbcglobal.net
thanks
It pains me to hear that you lost $600,000 to Mike Watson. He really took advantage of your faith in him. He also owes me $600,000.
I sold him some property in 2006. I did insist on a first position deed of trust. He made 38 interest only payments. The forclosure auction is today. At least I will get the property back. I expect Mike to file bk. I have been concerned that he would file prior to the forclosure and delay the forclosure a few months. You might try to get a judgement for the debt.
You are among the millions of people who have lost their fortunes to the crooks who have manapulated the financial system to their advantage.
Bob
Well, here’s a chance to get it straight from the source: copy direct from email I recieved.
“Mike Watson invites you to take a look at the financial duress the market is causing MWI, our investors and our students.
Learn what has happened, how we are trying to deal with it and how we are moving forward in the future. Our goal is to maintain open communication and full disclosure with our customers, partners and students.
Webinar Details
Here are the Webinar details:
Webinar: “Discussion of Mike Watson’s Financial Future”
Date: Tuesday, June 9th
Time:
6:00pm PDT
7:00pm MDT
8:00pm CDT
9:00pm EDT
> Register for the Webinar”
register@mikewatsoninvesting.com
just a customer, also wondering: FWIW, YMMV
Here’s my take/experience with MW:
- of all the people he parades on stage including me, we merely served as his marketing tools hooking others into signing up for his courses. For the record, how many people who broadcast their deals on stage actually complete them and put money in their pockets? None. They simply talked about deals they were embarking on, with their energy, money, and a dream based on frenzies MW whipped up because of his psychology background. In fact, MW needs to pay those on stage for word of mouth advertising and testimonials.
- What about results: many who went on stage as “stars” lost their shirts. Ask Mike W where they are at with their deals now, or rather, how much they lost and their pending lawsuits towards Mike. Ryan Rude, Dean Serverns….these stars who trumpeted and taught for MW, where are they? Ask them!
- When I submitted a deal eval package the only fast thing they did was process the payment. Then I had to follow them around like puppy dog for them to “evaluate” it. Then a moratorium, then lifted the moratorium…all things done to the whims of this guy and costs of others.
- I have tuition balance and deal evaluation balance with him. Has anybody got any refund back?
- His staff walked out. Judge the man by who he surrounds himeself with – his right hand men Josh was a struggling investor from LV who “coached” others based on Mike’s theories, and Joel who “teaches” courses bought ONE condo.
- Finally, let’s be realistic: can a person who teaches a few courses a month, write books and quotes, do webinars, work with partners, spend time with a big family, get time to do deals even if he doesn’t sleep? No. All his business activities is meant to find suckers who invest in being his bird dogs, pay him and put up all kinds of money so he can profit from them, if any.
Mike Watson is a big fat bully.
Hey, I was just referred to this site. Is this stuff true? I live in Texas and I’ve been to Mike’s camp here in town, where they were talking all about the apartment deal you referred to. He was even raising money from investors for the deal. Are you serious that it’s been foreclosed? If so, I want my tuition back!
Interesting questions. At the recent SanDiego Seller Financing camp Watson told attendees it was lilkely he would be forced by SEC action to file bankruptcy, in part because he wanted investors in some land deals to be able to get some financial recovery. He acknowledged that development projects were dragging down all the profitable deals but insisted that he would still find ways to partner on cash flowing deals. Seemed like a stand-up approach, but is a bit too early to know what the real facts are. FWIW, YMMV
What a load of crap/ Thats how he cons people. He acts liek a stand up guy, and gets you to feel sorry for him. Anyone who exposes his true self, is deemed a villian. He is just trying to keep his scheme going as long as he can.
If he is as good as he claims to be, he would have done his research on the market trend. Even with a little idea about the trend he wouldn’t have led these poor investors into land deals when the market was to collapse the way it did. He was teaching, ie, engaging others into land deals even last year when the market was nosediving. In the end investors paid him to lose time and money. Sad.
It sounds to me that many of you writing on this blog are armchair quarterbacks instead of players in the field. I have known Mike Watson for nearly four years now. I have graduated from all eight degree camps, and have been involved personally with him in deals where he has done everything he said he would do. I have used the knowledge I’ve learned from Mike to complete a 24 plex condo conversion in Salt Lake City that made a $376,000 profit and a 17% APR return to my investors; a flag lot split that will make a $40,000 profit when it sells; a zone change and site plan on a .63 acre property that will make a $180,000 profit building out the 3 twin homes, a 6 acre site plan approved self-storage project that when build-out will produce $660,000 a year cash flow,etc. + 4 other projects I’m working on. Have all the deals I’ve done the last 4 years worked? No. I have a 16 lot subdivision I developed in Nampa, Idaho where I have not sold 1 lot yet and have a $7,000 / month development loan payment. Is that Mike Watson’s fault that I followed his strategy to find the highest and best use? No. Its the market conditions. I have investors as well that I took with me to do the Nampa subdivision that are upset that things haven’t gone the way we hoped for but I did everything right and they at least own the property and when the market comes back so will the profit. Those same investors had they remained in the stock market would now have lost 60% of their portfolio. Mike Watson will do the best he can to protect the investors and the projects they are involved in. Only positive action will create positive results. We are dealing with circumstances & problems never before seen. Be a part of the solution and not add to the problem.
I’m pretty sure it is. Who else would post something like that anonymously. Why dont they identify themselves?
I heard that several of Mikes deals in California are going into foreclosure now as well. Anyone else heard specifics?
Ken, how do you know that’s Mike?
Nofear, identify who you are so we know you’re not Mike or one of his associates. If you’re asking people to contact you, you need to identify yourself.
Thanks
FYI, the posting by ‘nofear’ is Mike Watson trying to find out who is posting to this blog. Do not reply to it.
Do not trust anyone who asks for your email address/number related to this blog. There will be official communication soon from the SEC folks, and you will hear about that directly, but do not reply to anyone here pretending to be looking out for investors.
Jerry-
thanks for the link to the FTC.
I have a friend who lost her entire life savings in Seattle following Mikes advice. It turns out, Mike Watson never did any of the things he taught in class. He just taught the theory, but represented that he was actually doing what he taught.
I never want anyone to be hurt again by that man, so I did as Jerry suggested and made my complaint to the FTC. I hope many others will follow suit. I wanted to post part of the complaint here, in case it helps anyone else in making your complaint. If enough of us come out and demand that the authorities do something, they will shut him down and protect future victims. EVERYONE PLEASE GO TO THE LINK ABOVE AND MAKE YOUR COMPLAINT TO THE FTC NOW
Here is part of my complaint:
…I have inside information regarding his practices. He has collected millions of dollars going across the country, teaching real estate development, and lying about his experience. Also, he is being investigated by several SEC offices because he has been offering securities without a license.
He did not disclose the risks of following his real estate advice that students paid 10k+ to hear. Several people have lost hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars. Entire life savings have been lost by following his advice. He never disclosed the risks to the participants of following his investing advice. Also, I can verify that the ’students’ that he paraded in front of everyone as examples of success, never did have ANY success in real estate. All of them lost money.
Mike Watson has lost millions of dollars for investors, yet he continues to sell his materials across the country, and charge thousands of dollars. He will not stop without authorities intervening on behalf of consumers.
I hope that with your intervention, you will be able to prevent even more people from losing their money, and even their life savings from following his advice.
Bill,
Thanks for posting that. One thing I would add is that your complaint is ANONYMOUS, so you dont have to worry about any retribution from Mike Watson. I think you have to file your complaint in the state where you reside. Mike raised money across so many state lines that It’s ridiculous.
But if you live in California, I believe you have to make your complaint in California, etc. You can google your state SEC office.
I also know several people are making complaints directly to the FTC. Anyone can make a complaint regarding Mike Watson to the FTC, even if you did not lose money directly. I found the link to share with everyone.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/
One of the complaints that is going to get him in a lot of hot water is the fact that he did not disclose properly regarding the risks associated with what he was teaching. Plus false claims of earnings, false claims of deals he had not really done, etc.
I have compliained and asked for a refund of all my tuition, and I suggest everyone follow suit. Once they get enough complaints, they will have to take action.
I have to post anonymously here, and I apologize for that, but I fear retaliation from Mike Watson. He’s capable of anything.
The reason I am posting is that several investors who have lost money are telling their story to the Utah Securities and Exchange Commission. Mike has violated several SEC laws, and their intention is to force him to shut down.
The reason I bring this up here is two fold. First, I would like to post the Utah SEC complaint form on this website for investors who have been damaged. Secondly, I would like you all to spread the word so investors that have lost money in the past will be able to submit their story as well.
together we can stop Mike Watson from hurting anyone else. Please tell everyone you know who was involved with Mike Watson, or who lost money to visit this site, download the forms, and take action.
Is there a way we could get the SEC complaint form attached to this blog?
Hello All,
I think that you guys may like what i am about to write….currently there are some MWI projects that we are negotiating control of and would like to find more. While the returns are not as quick,easy and lofty as those promised by MWI ours can be real.If nothing else the MWI students have come up with some potentially profitable deals. So here is our take on the situation, MWI was working without a net and we are the GROUND, picking up the pieces one at a time.If you think you have lost all your money give me a look at your deal what could it hurt? I mean we are currently fighting for other MWI students right now……
Reply to this message and i will set up an email account for us to communicate…..
I am also a student investor, and feeling frustrated and confused as to what to do. I tried contacting them several times via email and phone. Always the run around or no response at all. I’ve been trying to get my investment back for almost 2 years now. Any help and/or suggestions greatly appreciated.
Frustrated and confused,
file a complaing with your state SEC office. That’s what everyone is doing who lost money with this guy. Also, complaining to the FTC per Gayle above is a good idea as well.
Hi, This is Gayle. I know several of the posters here. Is it true that Mike Watson is still teaching? I find that amazing, given that he has had so many losses for investors. I heard the SEC is investigating him, is that true?
I remember Mike came to California a while back and was actively raising money in the room for some projects. I couldn’t believe it. I’ve got a background in securities, and to raise money out of state (I believe his home state is Utah) you have to do a lot of things to make sure you’re not running afoul of SEC regs.
Anyway, the way he was doing it, it was clearly violating SEC regs. I left the class early. It was sad, becasuse some of the people there actually were getting ready to lend this guy money. It sounds like a lot of people are going to lose money now.
Please share this with other MWI students, because I know some people up here in Seattle who have been hurt, and they should know about this blog.
Is there any action proceeding to keep Mike from doing more damage? I see his website looks like he’s just continuing like business as usual…
Hey Tess. Long time, no see.
I was burned by Mike too. I guess the point of this blog is to share experiences about our interaction with Mike Watson, so I’ll do that. I had a deal that they said they wanted to ‘partner’ on. I submitted everything to their office, got the OK to proceed, and so I put up my own earnest money. 5k out of my pocket. They were supposed to provide the funding for the deal. Anyway, long story short, Mike’s office kept asking us to extend the closing, which we were able to do twice, but on the third time, they would not extend. Mike couldn’t come up with the money and we lost the deal and my 5k. When I asked to be reimbursed they said it was MY fault because I couldnt get a third extention. AMAZING! MY FAULT? They were the ones who said they could come up with the funds. That’s WHY we ‘partnered’. Truly amazing.
I think I got off easy. I heard that Dean Severns lost like 100k in earnest money when Mike couldn’t come up with financing for his deal. I really feel bad for him.
What’s the moral of the story? Stay as far away from Mike Watson as possible.
Wow. I was just on a webinar with him and he acts like everything is normal. I dont think a lot of people know about this yet. I’ll get this website out to the people I know that are still involved with him. I know a lot of people already left him, but I had no idea
UPDATES!!!
Mike Watson loses 2 million dollars of investor money!!!!
HAVE YOU HEARD THE REAL INSIDE STORY TO MIKE’S RECENT LOSSES FOR INVESTORS?
In case you dont know, here’s the real truth. In Mike Watson’s arrogance, many of these deals are posted on his site AS IF they were profitable, etc. We’re hearing from past ‘partners’ of Mike every day, and if you’re one of them, make sure to post the truth about Mike here on the blog to warn others.
One of Mike Watson’s most prized projects, an apartment deal in Texas that he partnered with Jim and Kevin on (who by the way, will both tell you have not made a DIME with Mike Watson, although he parades them in front of unsuspecting students as if they are investing geniuses) was just foreclosed! I heard about it thru the grapevine, and verified that it is true. It was called the chateau pinehurst deal or something like that. There was 2 million in private capital on that dea AND THEY LOST IT ALL!!! Mike Watson is such a fraud that he continues to go around the country and sell his snake oil, even as his investors lose millions. He also tell’s audiences “I have never lost money on a deal”. What a load of BS.
Here’s the truth:
http://www.mikewatsoninvesting.com/our-vision/deals/deal-13.php
Wayne Hyatt and his group (Martha and Irene) sued Mike Watson because Mike would not pay them. Mike eventually coughed up the money, but not before making them sign a ‘gag’ order, so they couldnt tell anyone. Wayne was one of Mike’s STAR students, and Wayne will be the first to tell you that Mike Watson is a CON MAN.
If you know more about the true dealings of Mike Watson, make sure to post here and let the world know.
George and Mike-
You obviously have not been around Mike long. Mike feeds on newbies like you, soaks up your money and then spits you out. He does not care for anyone but himself. How do I know? I was in his inner circle, when he was just starting out. I was one of his ’star’ students. I saw first hand how he has treated people over the years, and it is truly sad. Believe me, he cares ONLY for himself. Also, so much of the stuff he teaches he DOES NOT DO. He teaches theory, and leaves it to his ’students’ to go out and try it. Good luck with that! Take the advice of someone on the inside. Stay as far away as possible…
remember not all the new investors will make it to the top because of fear or give up
George and Mike –
Show me what return you reaped listening to and learning from Mike.
mike watson is real i am one of his students i did all his course with out buying anything just by listening to him speak now i will invest in hes course the thing that stops people is fear not the mentor
Mike-
Why so defensive? Are you one of mikes ‘disciples’? The whole guru/brainwashed student thing is so predictable.
You said there is no proof. Check out my proof below, and now that people are getting the truth out about MIke, you will see a lot more proof in the coming days/weeks.
Just count your lucky stars you did not invest with him, or ‘partner’. You’re one of the lucky ones
I personally know that several of Mike’s projects are in foreclosure, and he has already lost some to the bank, but he wont admit it, and continues to portray himself like some sort of guru. I remember in the 80’s how con men like him came into being when the market was hot, and then disappeared when the market crashed. Looks like he and his students are going to be the next wave of casualties…
I have not been able to get out of a bad investment,
and all he does is have online meetings to tell us how screwed we are. Anybody else feel the same way ?
The gag order thing is true. I know some investors in Phoenix who were screwed by Mike, and they sued. Part of their ’settlement’ with him was that they could not ‘bad mouth’ him, or in other words, tell people the truth.
I’ve talked with them off the record, and believe me, you dont want to get anywhere near Mike Watson
I dont think the mormon thing has anything to do with it. I know many LDS people, and most of them are great people.
I paid that jerk 12k for classes, only to find out that he hasn’t done half the things he teaches. And by the way, the guys he puts up on stage? Neither have they.
I know personally that several of them are broke, and havent made a dime with mike watson. What a fraud. I tried to get my money back, but the schmuck wont refund.
Beware! I know many of his ‘inner circle’. They will tell you the guy is a fraud. He went around the country teaching stuff he never did. He’s a liar and cheat. Just ask any of his ‘former’ partners who he has screwed. The list is LONG. Ever wonder why no one sticks around? because he burns them and then they leave.
He raised millions, and now cant pay it back.
Yes, he has burned many people, and he calls himself a good Mormon. he should be ashabmed of himself !
Yes, i heard that he doesnt pay his bills and that he is on the verge of Bankruptcy. Too bad for all those investors who invested with him. Beware of false prophets. !
I have heard that he is going broke now, and that many students and investors stand to lose lots of money.
Yes I heard the same thing. he cant pay his bills and has allegedly cheated some investors already. I heard that he has had to put legal GAG orders on some disgruntled investors. Dont know if thats true.
hi there yes we all make mistakes in life get over that the thing here is most of you have not tried to even go and do what mike talks a bought so how can we even talk a bought the person if we haven’t even done a deal i am a successful student of mikes making $$$$$ yes he may have problems but don’t we all have problems in life leave the man live his life in peace
I worked for Mike, he is not a cheat, he is a salesman. His strategies are good, he learned them from some of the best investors. What he is going through is not unlike what Ron Legrand and other gurus are dealing with, a down market. When you deal with thousands of clients it is not easy to manage, he has done a good job of it. I left for personal reasons but I can vouch that he is honest and has made mistake of ambition, but not of deceit. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but having known the guy I’ve seen his temper and I’ve seen his generosity. He is really beat up over this, but if he was really committing fraud he would be in jail.
If he reads this I hope he knows that we know he is not a bad guy, just a guy facing a real estate storm.
Jon-
You say Mike learned from the best. On his cd’s and at his camps he always said he never took another real estate course, and that he was self taught. Which is it? Obviously, he learned from others, but saying that would not be good for business, would it?
And yes, Mike Watson is an amazing salesperson, NOT an amazing investor, obviously. The issue is his lack of disclosure.
Regarding your comment that if he was deceiving others he would be in jail, you should not speak too quickly on that point. Several SEC offices around the country are investigating him for offering securities without a license, and defrauding investors that has led to the losses of millions of dollars. We’ll see how it all pans out, but you should withhold judgement until you see the results of these investigations.
I have followed Mike Watson's system since August of 2007. Our power team has made money from his strategies, and I have personally learned a lot from Mike. I know for a fact that Mike is working through this tough market as we are all trying to do. Mike is not a bad guy. He has helped many people and causes and is a follower of Christ.
I've read several of the comments made here on this site. I just question those of you who have invested: Does it make sense to file all these lawsuits against him? I would think that you're making it harder for him to pay you back. Also, you can't blame Mike for all the losses. With every investment, there is a risk any intelligent investor knows about and you all should've done your due diligence.
Now you may think that this may be easy for me to say because I am not an investor. On the contrary, my team has $600K invested with Mike. I am also worried about what will come of our investment, which includes capital from our investors as well. However, I am a firm believer of working together through this. Mike was very successful before. He is not one to quit, and maybe if angry investors would leave him and his family alone, he'll have an easier time making money to pay off his investors faster.
Mike, if you're reading this, we still believe in you. I'll continue to pray for you and your family so that you will be abundantly blessed.
Melanie...
With all due respect, you are a fool. How can you hear all the testimony on this blog, and still defend this guy? wow, Mike really does target suckers...
Nope, 'leaving Mike alone' is not going to get your money back...it's gone. Mike owes millions and millions of dollars, and cant possibly repay it.
The issues of fraud will be sorted out by the SEC, etc. but Mike definitely misrepresented at the least, and may have commited outright fraud on several occasions...
I dont understand how you can read thru this blog, and want Mike Watson to continue in his business practices...just read from all the people who were actually very close to him (unlike you). They know the real Mike Watson
Anonymous-
It's sad to see that you're fueled by so much anger. Not only that, but it is apparent that for someone who stands by his/her words, you don't have the integrity to put your name behind your convictions. Call me a fool, sucker and anything else you want. At least I'm putting my energy into more prosperous activities. Hence, I won't be wasting my time on this blog anymore. I leave you with this one question: Don't you think that Mike would be in jail by now if he really committed fraud? Then again "may have commited outright fraud on several occasions" sounds like you're not even sure of your accusations.
Hey,
this isnt about arguing between eachother. The point is that the SEC is now fully investigating Mike Watson in many states, including Utah. It's a waste of time to argue about 'what he did' or 'what he didnt do'. Let the authorities sort it all out...
Whether you are pro Mike Watson or not, everyone has a right to their opinion. But let the authorities sort out the fraud stuff...that's their job
Does anyone remember which seminar (location and dates) was attended by Entrust representatives? I know they were at at least one seminar -I think it was in Phoenix, AZ. I'm relieved to see that this blog is back online, thanks for all of your efforts.
Hey all,
Thanks for hanging with us while we updated the blog onto a private server...
The new blog is about to go live, and it will look very much like the old blog, so it will have a very familiar feel for you...
Mr. Watson will NOT shut down free speech again...
Thanks for your patience while we dealt with his attempt to quash the blog
I was one of the students promising to pay some $10K - $12K to degree camp and has only been to one session. Now there is a creditor that keeps calling me and wants the balance. Anybody has that experience and what is the way to get it off your back?
Any update? It has been a few years since the SEC "settlement". Statute of limitations is running out for some.
Well, HELLO there everbody! Mike Watson here. Unlike many, I am posting under my own personal name because I am not a coward or a liar. This is my first time posting here, unlike some of the many baseless claims contained herein. You all know me well enough to know that I would never hide under a false name or use "anonymous" to post like many of you did. Actually, I think many of you never knew me. This blog proves it.
I can tell you that I have sat back for years and watched so many of you lie, defame, slander and try to destroy me. So many would and have said anything, done anything and sold their souls to take me down. And guess what, I'm still standing here. Happier and healthier than ever. None of the wild and destructive dreams you hoped for me took place. The truth came out, like it ALWAYS does. Like it has in your own lives too.
And while this is a fan page about me, it speaks so much more about all of you. The fact that this page is still here after all these years says so much about Paul and Jason (Jim Brick) and the other tarnished and blackened souls that sold themselves. What a sad story. When the market crashed and the world-wide epidemic in the real estate and mortgage industry occurred, I couldn't believe how many of you were out for blood...... at any cost.... your integrity, your honesty, your net worths, in some cases your families, marriages and friendships thrown away. You have paid a heavy price for your hatred and dishonesty. I have been set free by the truth coming out, like I told you all it would.
The wild and baseless accusations that many of you created yourselves and many others let yourselves believe, after so much proof to the contrary have been proven unfounded. So many years I was in business and so many years we had flawless execution. That my business was destroyed, like so many others, was not a reason for you all to take license to try to falsely destroy me. The record is very clear now on what happened. No one is left making false accusations and lying, because the truth has come out.
And as hard as you tried to destroy, you were not able to do so. And sadly as I have watched, so much of the destruction that you hoped for me, came to your own lives, which is always the result of false efforts like these. Tough for you all to learn this painful lesson, but needed nonetheless. And truth be told, I have watched in agony for you. I have prayed for you. Reached out to many of you. Hoped for you, because as dishonest and hurtful as many of you were, I have had enough pain in my life to hope that no one else suffers too. But when you lie, defame, back-stab and destroy, there are consequences. That is one of the reasons I kept so quiet through all of my struggles. I knew that the truth would come out and I knew that God was protecting me and on my side. And boy, did He protect me.
The one thing I asked many of you that would reach out to me anonymously like Paul Wadlich did so many times or those of you that had enough integrity to use your real names was, "When the truth comes out and there is no willful or intentional fraud of any kind, will you work as hard to restore my name as you have to destroy it?" And I knew the answer then, just like we've seen proof now. No one has come back to fix all of the lies and untruths on this page. The fact that Paul keeps the page up speaks to the volume of pain, anger and hatred in his own life. Almost a decade has passed since the start of this and Paul can't and won't let go of it. Look at what your hatred and anger has cost you Paul. I can't imagine the depth of your loss, over such a small sum of money too. I have prayed for you brother and will continue to do so. Where are all of you haters and liars now? Will you take back the false things that you said and hoped for about me? Do you have any integrity? Do you only speak to lash out, or to restore also?
Post 1, more coming......
And I am here on this page to claim this blessing. I am here to claim this fan page. It has been turned from a lie and destructive darkness into a light for so many. An example for so many to never give up, no matter how ugly and unfair life is and can be. I'm still standing here and now I have this powerful story of overcoming all of the injustices of what happened to move me forward. Thank you all for this incredible blessing!
In fact, this page became one of the biggest blessings in my life. Yes, blessing. That so many people, that I did so much for turned on me was a real revelation to me. That so many people that benefited so many ways from me and my efforts forgot so easily and changed their stories about me in their pain taught me some powerful life lessons. Having so many flee the blessings that my efforts, business and fortune provided for you when the downfall came, was like watching cockroaches flee the room when the light of truth was turned on. And it all was a wonderful blessing to me.
I learned that I had relied too much on myself and my own knowledge and experience, instead of creating a deeper relationship with God. When so many left my side and the light my success had provided, I only had one place to look and that was up. And what a glorious blessing that has been to me. Thank you all so much. The hurt and damage you've tried to cause me had to be this caustic, this bitter, this acerbic, so that I would turn more fully to Him. What a life-changing experience that was, better than any company, fortune or false friend. And, by far. He has carried me through this and blessed me in ways I could never imagine.
Here are some truths for you all to think about. These are not opinions like every single post before this one. They are FACTS. Not in dispute. And you've all been silenced by them too.
1. I was involved in 94 legal actions, 75 foreclosures, 6 governmental investigations and more and NEVER STEPPED FOOT IN A COURTROOM. Never once stepped foot in a courtroom. That tells the whole story there as false accusation after false accusation chased me until the truth came out. I was never even criminally charged or accused for anything. Such a different truth than the lies that have been told here.
2. The SEC investigation, that should have taken 6-12 months, in my opinion, took 2.5 years. The had to keep looking, even though they were given everthing that they needed. IT was all so clear. Everything I told them from day 1 proved to be 100% true 2.5 years later. My attorney told me that I was the most honest client she had ever represented. I did lose a lot of money. I did make clerical, organization and procedural mistakes. ALL businesses do. However, there was no willful or intentional fraud, deceit, misdirection or dishonest actions of any kind. THE RECORD IS CLEAR ON THIS now. I have been scrutinized, investigated, fined and more, but the outcome is not in dispute. When the 2.5 year investigation concluded, oddly around the time I was broke, the SEC filed a CIVIL lawsuit from which I couldn't defend myself. I was ready and I was willing. I didn't have several hundred thousand dollars and 3-5 years more of my life to throw away though. This is often how the game is played.
3. Every investor dollar was accounted for, to the penny. Every dollar went to real estate investing and the support, benefit and purchase of the real estate investments. There was no personal use of funds on my part for even ONE PENNY.
4. Roughly $16 million in remaining investor funds was backed by a $55 million dollar portfolio. This was not a mirage of any kind, but the world-wide faltering of real estate markets.
Post 2- more coming.......
5. There was no missing investor money. Additionally, the employees that supported these investments, their salaries, office space, overhead, my personal time and many other things were paid for by my companies or by me.
6. I had more of my own money and equity positions in these investments that all other investors combined. I believed in what I did and what had created a fortune for me over 15 years.
7. My family members comprised the second largest group of funds.
8. When I filed bankruptcy, I probably could have filed and remained a wealthy man. I didn't file BK on the companies that were ailing. I filed individually and gave all my assets so that investors could receive the maximum return possible.
So, there you all have it. The truth, not in question. I hope that any of you reading this will make an effort to fix the dishonest damage you tried to cause. Not for me, but for you. We will all be held accountable for what we did on this earth, often in this lifetime too.
I hope and pray that many of you can escape the consequences of what you've done, although I know that won't happen. Pray to God for forgiveness on anything you need in your life. I forgive you. All of you. Paul Wadlich, Jason Sant (I think your name is Jim Brick now, but I'm not sure.), Jody Marshall, Josh Escobedo, Donna Hansen, Pam Watson, Dean Severns, Jim Stephens and the rest of you, I have forgiven you. I loved and cared for all of you at one time or another, except for Paul. I never got to know you like the others. I saw so much good in most of you. We shared some wonderful times together. I choose to remember many of those, instead of what many of you did at the end. I pray that the Lord will have mercy on your souls.
And to the many of you that have reached out to me, apologized in your own way, re-established relationships with me, forgiven me, cheered me on...... I love and appreciate you so much. Life is too short to live in such ugliness.
Lastly, I'd like to ask you all for forgiveness for anything I may have done to harm you. I had wished that things were different until I learned that life happens FOR us, not TO us. All the things that I went through were blessings. When life got going to the point that it did, I wasn't as good of man as I should have been. I worked too much, traveled too much, had too much going and tried too hard. I made a lot of mistakes. I was harder on people than I should have been. I apologize from the bottom of my heart. I was overwhelmed at times and trying to do too much. I wish I had been a better man. I believe a lot of this happened (not all the lies and dishonesty on the part of the attackers, but the markets crashing and my business failing when it never should have) to help me achieve a course correction. I have tried so hard to become a better man. I've done my best, but still have a long way to go.
I would encourage all of you to come back on here and make right what you've tried to do. Your soul is worth it. I'd love to hear from any of you that are in a positive and uplifting place. I have enjoyed re-establishing so many of the old relationships. I will be back on this page and I will post under my own personal name EVERY SINGLE TIME.
May God be with you!
No one has rushed back on the site here to make amends for all of the wrongful damage and destruction that they caused. I can't say that I am surprised by this.
I asked again and again, "Will you come back and fix the lies, slander, defamation and destruction that you've caused when the truth comes (It always comes out!) and you all realize that the world-wide market simply crashed?"
I'm not suprised, but I am sad that no one has enough integrity to do so. Especially you Paul. I know you are seeing these messages. Your attempt to destroy me cost you so much. I forgive you.
Why don't you try to fix this with the same vigor with which you tried to destroy?
Thanks!
Mike, hit me up. I'd like to add a copy of your book, "Becoming your own best client to my library."
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